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Thread: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservatives’ Sway

  1. #231
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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservatives’ Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    It is as simple as I put it. From the moment the sperm penetrates the egg, it is a human. Any other reclassification can only be explained as a response to the cognitive dissonance created as a result of killing an innocent child.
    It's really not that simple at all. The fact that you think it is means that you view the world in very simplistic terms - it has no basis on the actual complexity of the issue at hand.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservatives’ Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    It's really not that simple at all. The fact that you think it is means that you view the world in very simplistic terms - it has no basis on the actual complexity of the issue at hand.
    Some things really are simple. This is one of them. You have to admit that the majority of abortions are for one reason and one reason only...the child just isn't convenient. Just look at the 1998 International Family Planning survey:

    37.7% of abortions went to women that are either "too young" or not ready
    10.8% didn't want the kid to interfere with work or school
    21.3% said they couldn't afford the kid
    8% said they just didn't want kids at all
    14.1% were in a bad relationship

    That's 92.9% of abortions for something other than a real life threatening risk.

    That's the reality. 92.9% of the children that are abort are for selfish reasons. I can't support the killing of a child just because the parent(s) are selfish.

    http://www.abortiontv.com/Misc/Abort...istics.htm#Why Abortions Are Performed
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservatives’ Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    Unfortunately, Reps/cons have decided to take away funding for Planned Parenthood, one of the strongest organizations providing information and help to prevent unwanted pregnancies. They are against abortions, so they try to close down an organization that is helping to reduce them, go figure.
    Could it just be something as cynical as a need for cannon fodder, or abjectly poor people desperate for even peasant level wages?

    Because I sure see a lot of activity in support of sex leading to offspring, while also witnessing a complete liquidation of all support systems for those children after birth.

    Is the human race just incapable of seeing multiple sides of an issue, or is it just a result of the constant barrage of persuasion techniques?

    I mean seriously, this thread is filled with "liberals don't care about people" statements from people who claim liberals are unrealistic about society caring about people.

    Personally, I believe ther are far too many people on the planet as it is, and therefore bringing more people into it is madness. I advocate incentives to sterilization and even voluntary, incentivized eugenics. (Genetic disorders, etc.)

    So while I don't advocate for abortion as birth control, I do believe that accidental/unwanted pregnancies should be abortable for both the survival of the species as well as the quality of life of the fetus in question.

    And for reference, I believe in reincarnation and a multitude of lives, a philosophy precisely as valid as any other, so my cosmology does not necessarily make abortion a sin.

    This is just another of those places where people are never going to agree.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservatives’ Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    The a gross simplification of the issue based on many subjective and unscientific assumptions. If were as simple as you put it, there wouldn't even be a debate.
    Any scientific method would tell you that what is being removed is a living thing, a human being with the potential to be a child and an adult. And to deny that the Democrats have not embraced abortion in order to satisy the Leftist base doesn't gibe with the facts.

    The Pro-Abortion Party - WSJ.com

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservatives’ Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    Some things really are simple. This is one of them. You have to admit that the majority of abortions are for one reason and one reason only...the child just isn't convenient. Just look at the 1998 International Family Planning survey:

    37.7% of abortions went to women that are either "too young" or not ready
    10.8% didn't want the kid to interfere with work or school
    21.3% said they couldn't afford the kid
    8% said they just didn't want kids at all
    14.1% were in a bad relationship

    That's 92.9% of abortions for something other than a real life threatening risk.

    That's the reality. 92.9% of the children that are abort are for selfish reasons. I can't support the killing of a child just because the parent(s) are selfish.

    Abortion Statistics by U.S. State, Race, Age and Worldwide Statistics Abortions Are Performed
    Those are all pretty rational reasons...

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservatives’ Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    It's really not that simple at all. The fact that you think it is means that you view the world in very simplistic terms - it has no basis on the actual complexity of the issue at hand.
    It is not complex at all. Either there is life or there isn't life. It is deceitful to dismiss the issue as 'complex' or 'simplistic' when the facts are easily available.

    If it is not a living thing inside the mother we call the child 'stillborn'.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservatives’ Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Any scientific method would tell you that what is being removed is a living thing, a human being with the potential to be a child and an adult.
    A person in an irreversible coma is some version of "alive" as well. Irrelevant. Show me consciousness.

    And to deny that the Democrats have not embraced abortion in order to satisy the Leftist base doesn't gibe with the facts.

    The Pro-Abortion Party - WSJ.com
    When did I deny that?

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservatives’ Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Either there is life or there isn't life.
    No, unfortunately, that's not how it works. A person in a irreversible coma is some version of "alive" as well. The fact that a fetus is wholly dependent on the mother for life is another reason why your statement is simplistic. Let's also throw in the fact that having a heartbeat does not denote having the mental functions that most us associate with "life". Etc.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservatives’ Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Those are all pretty rational reasons...
    I have seen the left rationalize every inhumanity known to man.

    That's just who they are.

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservatives’ Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    No, unfortunately, that's not how it works.
    That's not how it works? Really? Of course that's how it works! And what does a person in an irreversible coma have to do with anything? Babies in the womb are not in an "irreversible coma".

    The fact that a fetus is wholly dependent on the mother for life is another reason why your statement is simplistic.
    Isn't this the direct opposite of the same Leftist argument that says "the rich" should pay for the "wholly dependent" poor? If we want to start getting rid of the wholly dependents, as has been argued by Leftists in the past, then there are many places you can start. How about Veteran's Hospitals? Old folks homes? Will you be waiting for welfare recipients to show up for their food stamps before you apply some retroactive abortion
    on them?
    Let's also throw in the fact that having a heartbeat does not denote having the mental functions that most us associate with "life". Etc
    Yes, I've heard Michael Moore, Danny Glover and many other leftists speak.

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