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Thread: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

  1. #171
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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    Social conservatives just can't quite see the 97% of Planned Parenthood's activities addressing non-abortion-related women's health services; e.g., cancer screenings, education and contraceptives. 100% of federal funding to Planned Parenthood goes towards that 97%; 0% goes to the other 3%.
    Cancer screenings by Planned Parenthood represent less than 5% of the screenings in the country. They are a little more prominent in contraceptives, though still not rising above 10%. The reality is that Planned Parenthood's most prominent role is in the abortion industry.
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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    Cancer screenings by Planned Parenthood represent less than 5% of the screenings in the country. They are a little more prominent in contraceptives, though still not rising above 10%. The reality is that Planned Parenthood's most prominent role is in the abortion industry.
    1. Can I see the source for those numbers?
    2. I would argue that Planned Parenthood's most prominent role is in the "providing sexual health services to poor women" industry - particularly considering that "75 percent [of PP clients] have incomes below 150 percent of the poverty line".

    What Planned Parenthood actually does - Ezra Klein - The Washington Post

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    That would be most of the time yes?
    Didn't say that.

    The issue is all the problems you mentioned are already problems with abortion allowed. Really, you are just demanding that I solve all the problems in society that exist today before I can suggest prohibiting abortion. If there was a widespread practice of allowing people to kill newborns for convenience I doubt you would make the same kind of demand. Your problem is you start off with the presumption that allowing it is not as bad as stopping it. However, for people who see it as the senseless slaughter of countless innocent lives it is far less reasonable to suggest that there needs to be a solution to all the problems in our child-care system before it can be stopped.
    People seeing it as a senseless slaughter is an appeal to emotion and irrelevant. I am not asking you to solve society's problems. I am asking you to come up with a plan of how to deal with the MUCH larger number of unwanted children and children to those who are unadvantaged. Without the option for abortion, there will be far more of these than there are now. You want this. You come up with how to deal with it. This is the issue that pro-lifers always get stuck on... it causes you to have to think about this situation rationally rather than emotionally.

    Except the question of legality is not dependent on the ruling of the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court ruled it was legal, but as I said their ruling was not in tune with the law. Unfortunately, there is no group but the Supreme Court that can correct the error since the Supreme Court also gave itself final authority over the interpretation of the law.
    Irrelevant. Currently, it is legal.

    More unreasonable comments. The notion that anyone who is against abortion should adopt a child is ridiculous because it ignores that not everyone can do it. If you are a single person on minimum wage adoption is probably not a good idea, that does not mean you should not be able to say a child can be put up for adoption instead of being killed without being called a hypocrite.
    If you have no plan and no solutions in order to deal with your proposal, then your proposal has no reason to be considered. You want to make an appeal to emotion argument, be my guest, but there is no substance to it. If YOU want abortion to stop, then it is up to YOU to develop plans for what happens next. I am fine with how things are. Right now, you folks are in the minority. You want to convince some of us? You'll have to do a whole lot better than you're doing.
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    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    Cancer screenings by Planned Parenthood represent less than 5% of the screenings in the country. They are a little more prominent in contraceptives, though still not rising above 10%. The reality is that Planned Parenthood's most prominent role is in the abortion industry.
    This information is a diversion and did not address what Chappy said. Your reponse was dishonest. Chappy indicated a minor breakdown of the percentages of services provided by PP. 3% are abortions. YOU then discussed the percentage of services PP provides compared to those in the entire country. Completely different issue.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    1. Can I see the source for those numbers?
    2. I would argue that Planned Parenthood's most prominent role is in the "providing sexual health services to poor women" industry - particularly considering that "75 percent [of PP clients] have incomes below 150 percent of the poverty line".

    What Planned Parenthood actually does - Ezra Klein - The Washington Post
    He diverted the issue, theplaydrive. He didn't respond to what Chappy actually said.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Private funding is not enough to help with this issue and esp during these hard times.
    ~Following My Own Flow~

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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Why do you keep insisting that since I don't think I should pick up the tab, that I want to take away a woman's right to do whatever she wants with her body?



    I didn't breed'em, I shouldn't have to pay through the nose in taxes to feed'em.

    There needs to be legislation passed that requires a mother and father--married, or not--to split the cost of raising a child--whatever that amount is determined to be. No more making a parent pay child support based on his, or her reportable income, only. End the child tax credit. Cut welfare, so that a parent has no choice but to get his, or her dead ass and get a job.

    Sorry, but it's time for some tough love.
    O.K. So you do agree with a womans right to choose. Good for you. My question for you now is why do you want babies to starve to death?
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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    O.K. So you do agree with a womans right to choose. Good for you. My question for you now is why do you want babies to starve to death?
    Lol kali talk about a loaded question...he has a really good point. Apdst doesn't want to have to pay out of his pocket for the mistakes of others, and that's not an unreasonable position. I don't know to what degree this is true, but some people think that if you end all these benefits people will think twice before making irresponsible decisions.
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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    1. Can I see the source for those numbers?
    It's not one source so I am not terribly interested in tracking down all of them for you. Suffice to say tens of millions of women get each of these tests done every year and Planned Parenthood only provides each to about 1 million people a year. Purchases of contraceptives are also in the tens of millions. As far as abortion here is a figure for you:

    Planned Parenthood Reports Abortion Rate Up By More Than 8,000 in One Year | CNSnews.com

    2. I would argue that Planned Parenthood's most prominent role is in the "providing sexual health services to poor women" industry - particularly considering that "75 percent [of PP clients] have incomes below 150 percent of the poverty line".
    Because poor women don't have some sort of government program to cover their expenses at another facility. The fact there are far more poor people who seem to get these elsewhere without difficulty suggests it is yet another non-issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Didn't say that.
    You should have.

    People seeing it as a senseless slaughter is an appeal to emotion and irrelevant.
    Because nothing you have said is in any way an appeal to emotion. You are just saying that we might have rising cases of child abuse, rampant financial distress, and a massive health crisis were we to stop people from getting abortion. Actually, what I said is just how I see it. I don't see why I should be PC about an ongoing massacre of innocent children.

    I am not asking you to solve society's problems. I am asking you to come up with a plan of how to deal with the MUCH larger number of unwanted children and children to those who are unadvantaged. Without the option for abortion, there will be far more of these than there are now. You want this. You come up with how to deal with it. This is the issue that pro-lifers always get stuck on... it causes you to have to think about this situation rationally rather than emotionally.
    Honestly, I do consider it rationally, but I don't ****ing give a damn about your nonsensical notion that people need to lay out a plan to fix our child-care system in order to say we need to stop people from killing babies.

    Irrelevant. Currently, it is legal.
    Like I said, you believe it is legal, while I believe it is very much not legal. The difference is you are a statist who thinks whatever the State says is all that matters, while I think rights are something that exist independent of the State and not subject to removal by any authority. In this case my position is reinforced by the fact we have a Constitution that is the highest authority in the country with no body or law superseding it not even the Supreme Court.

    If you have no plan and no solutions in order to deal with your proposal, then your proposal has no reason to be considered. You want to make an appeal to emotion argument, be my guest, but there is no substance to it. If YOU want abortion to stop, then it is up to YOU to develop plans for what happens next. I am fine with how things are. Right now, you folks are in the minority. You want to convince some of us? You'll have to do a whole lot better than you're doing.
    Sorry, but that is not how it works. You do not condition a cease fire in a war by saying there needs to be a peace treaty already drawn up to deal with everyone's grievances. An end to killing happens first, then you try to figure out how to work out what happens next. It is the same here. Ending this allowance of abortion-on-demand must come before you start talking about how to deal with the child-care system.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    This information is a diversion and did not address what Chappy said. Your reponse was dishonest. Chappy indicated a minor breakdown of the percentages of services provided by PP. 3% are abortions. YOU then discussed the percentage of services PP provides compared to those in the entire country. Completely different issue.
    It is not a diversion or dishonest. The implication is that defunding Planned Parenthood will suddenly create a huge problem in acquiring these non-abortion services and I was pointing out that it would do nothing of the sort. People will still be able to get their condoms and their pills. No one is going to suddenly not be able to get a cancer screening. All it would seriously reduce is the availability of abortion. As for dishonesty, Chappy was in fact being dishonest as are you by providing that figure. That figure represents the number of clients meaning the number of people who received abortions as opposed to the number that received cancer screenings or condoms. Using those figures to argue against defunding is dishonest. It doesn't fairly reflect that 15% of its revenue comes from abortion or that a third of its facilities provide abortions with more than a fifth providing surgical abortions.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
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    Re: Late Clash on Abortion Shows Conservativesí Sway

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I understand the sentiment, but from my perspective, ending federal funding to their abortion services was enough. I don't see any practical or medical reason or benefit for PP to stop abortion services. When abortion is scientifically proven to be harmful, then I'll change my mind.
    As their are a significant number of people who are against abortion and certainly don't want to fund it, perhaps those who chose to voluntarily support the abortionists can do so. Your perspective, while worthwhile, is of little value to those who feel strongly in the other direction. In fact, if i recall, that includes the majority of Americans.

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