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Thread: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

  1. #281
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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    And A lot that do get adopted....few become drains on society. All abortions result in dead babies.
    That children get adopted does not dismiss the fact that many do not. Nonetheless, when you show scientifically that a fetus is a conscious human being, then your dramatic appeal to emotion will be relevant. Until then, it isn't.

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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    That children get adopted does not dismiss the fact that many do not. Nonetheless, when you show scientifically that a fetus is a conscious human being, then your dramatic appeal to emotion will be relevant. Until then, it isn't.
    It's no worse than your dramatic appeal to emotion. You stop using them and so will I. Many Children do get adopted, many are fostered, well, until adult-hood. Stop your emotional appeals, and I'll stop mine.

    Many children are also up for adoption because something happened to their parents. Not simply because they are unwanted. Be honest in your comments.
    Last edited by mac; 04-10-11 at 01:34 PM.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    It's no worse than your dramatic appeal to emotion. You stop using them and so will I. Many Children do get adopted, many are fostered, well, until adult-hood. Stop your emotional appeals, and I'll stop mine.
    What is my dramatic appeal to emotion?

    1. It is a fact that MANY children do NOT get adopted and it is therefore irresponsible to suggest that "unwanted" children will be taken care of by society.
    2. It is NOT a fact that a fetus is a conscious human being - statements such as yours are purely emotional appeals with no observational/scientific basis.
    3. You started talking about "killing babies" WAY before I made a comment about adopting children so it is very clear that you have no intention of not making your non-scientific, dramatic, emotional arguments.

    Edit: I saw you added a comment about "children being up for adoption because something happened to their parents". Please show me where I gave a blanket statement about the causes of being an orphan. Your comment does not contradict anything that I have said or anything that I believe. Please stop attributing things to my comments that don't exist.
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 04-10-11 at 01:52 PM.

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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    What is my dramatic appeal to emotion?

    1. It is a fact that MANY children do NOT get adopted and it is therefore irresponsible to suggest that "unwanted" children will be taken care of by society.
    2. It is NOT a fact that a fetus is a conscious human being - statements such as yours are purely emotional appeals with no observational/scientific basis.
    3. You started talking about "killing babies" WAY before I made a comment about adopting children so it is very clear that you have no intention of not making your non-scientific, dramatic, emotional arguments.

    Edit: I saw you added a comment about "children being up for adoption because something happened to their parents". Please show me where I gave a blanket statement about the causes of being an orphan. Your comment does not contradict anything that I have said or anything that I believe. Please stop attributing things to my comments that don't exist.
    The label "unwanted" for one. Dramatizing the existence of un-adopted kids as legitimization of abortion.

    You're appealing to emotion, buddy, face it.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The label "unwanted" for one. Dramatizing the existence of un-adopted kids as legitimization of abortion.

    You're appealing to emotion, buddy, face it.
    I used the word "unwanted" AFTER you criticized me for using emotional appeal. Please show me the original comment where I appealed to emotion.

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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I used the word "unwanted" AFTER you criticized me for using emotional appeal. Please show me the original comment where I appealed to emotion.
    Saying that abortion is not killing is an emotional appeal (and a moral stance).

    Because you feel your position is superior, you rationalize your own emotional appeals and very really morality on the subject. Nevertheless, they are there and are no more valid (or less) than anyone elses. The hypocrisy is in your accusations of others doing what you do.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Saying that abortion is not killing is an emotional appeal (and a moral stance).
    1. A statement that makes you feel emotion is not an emotional appeal.
    2. Please show me where I said "abortion is not killing/murder". (Hint: I haven't. I have said A) That there is no scientific proof that it is murder. B) That I do not perceive it as murder). In other words, I have not made an argument of any kind nor would I ever. Therefore, your complaint is irrelevant.

    Because you feel your position is superior, you rationalize your own emotional appeals and very really morality on the subject. Nevertheless, they are there and are no more valid (or less) than anyone elses. The hypocrisy is in your accusations of others doing what you do.
    1. I'll admit that I'm superior when I start trying to limit other people's behavior so that they live according to my subjective morality - you do that, not me. Stop projecting.
    2. To me, abortion is an amoral medical procedure, particularly relative to the government's opinion of it.

    I make decisions about laws/funding based on whether or not the actions in question threaten the security and rights of other citizens. There is no scientific evidence that abortion threatens the security or rights of any citizens. Therefore, there is no reason to ban it or defund organizations that provide it. Please explain to me how this is a moral judgment. I have no opinion on whether it is right or wrong, moral or immoral. It is amoral.

    Judging based on whether or not threatens action threaten security and rights =/= moral judgment.
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 04-10-11 at 03:04 PM.

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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    1. A statement that makes you feel emotion is not an emotional appeal.
    2. Please show me where I said "abortion is not killing/murder". (Hint: I haven't. I have said A) That there is no scientific proof that it is murder. B) That I do not perceive it as murder). In other words, I have not made an argument of any kind nor would I ever. Therefore, your complaint is irrelevant.

    1. I'll admit that I'm superior when I start trying to limit other people's behavior so that they live according to my subjective morality - you do that, not me. Stop projecting.
    2. To me, abortion is an amoral medical procedure, particularly relative to the government's opinion of it.
    Based on your own subjective morality. Plain and simple.

    I make decisions about laws/funding based on whether or not the actions in question threaten the security and rights of other citizens. There is no scientific evidence that abortion threatens the security or rights of any citizens. Therefore, there is no reason to ban it or defund organizations that provide it. Please explain to me how this is a moral judgment. I have no opinion on whether it is right or wrong, moral or immoral. It is amoral.

    Judging based on whether or not threatens action threaten security and rights =/= moral judgment.
    Laws are morals. Any law you agree to or disagree with is demonstrating your own morality. Lack of morality, in your words, is morality. You are injecting your own morality into this argument and faulting others for doing the same.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Based on your own subjective morality. Plain and simple.
    Something cannot be amoral and moral/immoral at the same time. That doesn't make any sense.

    a·mor·al   
    1.not involving questions of right or wrong; without moral quality; neither moral nor immoral.
    2.having no moral standards, restraints, or principles; unaware of or indifferent to questions of right or wrong: a completely amoral person.

    Amoral | Define Amoral at Dictionary.com

    For me, abortion is an amoral topic. In other words, my evaluation of abortion does not involve questions of right or wrong, the moral quality of the act or place no value on the morality or immorality of the procedure. I do not believe that abortion is moral or immoral - I believe that it is amoral. You need to understand that amorality is not morality. It's not that difficult.

    Laws are morals. Any law you agree to or disagree with is demonstrating your own morality. Lack of morality, in your words, is morality. You are injecting your own morality into this argument and faulting others for doing the same.
    That is a ridiculous statement. I evaluate laws (that restrict behavior) based on whether or not they prevent threats to my safety or rights - that is an amoral, practical way of evaluating laws. If it doesn't prevent either then I think it needs to go - hence why laws against abortion and gay marriage don't belong anywhere.

    You need to understand that morality involves evaluations of right and wrong. 1) I don't view abortion as either right or wrong. It just is. 2) Laws can and are made without considering right or wrong.
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 04-10-11 at 07:39 PM.

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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Something cannot be amoral and moral/immoral at the same time. That doesn't make any sense.

    a·mor·al   
    1.not involving questions of right or wrong; without moral quality; neither moral nor immoral.
    2.having no moral standards, restraints, or principles; unaware of or indifferent to questions of right or wrong: a completely amoral person.

    Amoral | Define Amoral at Dictionary.com

    For me, abortion is an amoral topic. In other words, my evaluation of abortion does not involve questions of right or wrong, the moral quality of the act or place no value on the morality or immorality of the procedure. I do not believe that abortion is moral or immoral - I believe that it is amoral. You need to understand that amorality is not morality. It's not that difficult.
    That makes absolutely no sense. "For me" --- "Abortion is an amoral topic"

    How do you not see/understand this?!?

    You need to understand that morality involves evaluations of right and wrong. 1) I don't view abortion as either right or wrong. It just is. 2) Laws can and are made without considering right or wrong.
    You need to understand that this is exactly what you are doing. Whether or not YOU see it as an amoral action doesn't make it amoral. You, are injecting a subjective judgement....a moral.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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