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Thread: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

  1. #151
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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The elderly poverty rate is about on par or a little lower than the average population and means testing should be done, but never the less, they cost more money than what we can afford.

    There is no practical "other" option but to reduce services for them on some level.
    They already get the most tax dollars directed at them, while at the same time having some of the lowest tax rates of anyone because of their age, which is dumb.
    There is an "other", which is health care reform. This is why it is needed. Prices are climbing faster than inflation, faster than GDP growth. There are solutions.

    I'll look into it more.
    Thanks and good luck.
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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  2. #152
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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    There is an "other", which is health care reform. This is why it is needed. Prices are climbing faster than inflation, faster than GDP growth. There are solutions.
    Health care "reform" is a gimmick, other than cutting services.

    Not to mention that both our current Medicare tax and any other tax for a medical care system are regressive and discriminatory.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    No I'm not.

    UHC leads to a bureaucratic medical system that puts patients second in the equation. Look at Canada, and the UK. Sure, for basic walk in check up stuff, it's great, the masses are happy. What happens when you need real treatment?


    Aha. There is the problem. Look at the problem the UK is facing. Take heart bypass for example, they ended up BUYING a Private hospital over there, to get wait times to three weeks. Three WEEKS! It wads 6 MONTHS before that.

    You cannot centrally plan and manage the healthcare of a population, it just doesn't work. You create a dependent population, you drain resources and who suffers? The people.

    It's just how it happens.
    Same thing that ahppens here. Right here in the US people ahve trouble getting real treatment. You overstate the actual problems those countries have. No system is perfect, but people wait months here. And polls looking at satitifaction show those countries have a population more satisifed than we are, not less.

    Also, you don't have to centrallly manage or plan health care. A single payer system,, which can eb done many different ways, does nto centrally plan or do anything you suggest. Nor would be any more dependent than we are now that we have fire departments. We would merely be able to better provide adequate health care just as fire departments better protect against the devestation of a fire.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #154
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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Same thing that ahppens here. Right here in the US people ahve trouble getting real treatment. You overstate the actual problems those countries have. No system is perfect, but people wait months here. And polls looking at satitifaction show those countries have a population more satisifed than we are, not less.

    Also, you don't have to centrallly manage or plan health care. A single payer system,, which can eb done many different ways, does nto centrally plan or do anything you suggest. Nor would be any more dependent than we are now that we have fire departments. We would merely be able to better provide adequate health care just as fire departments better protect against the devestation of a fire.
    Dude you just contradicted yourself.
    A single payer, by default, is centrally managed.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Dude you just contradicted yourself.
    A single payer, by default, is centrally managed.
    Not the care, no. They do not manage the care. Nothing changes with doctors or hospitals other than the system of payment.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #156
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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not the care, no. They do not manage the care. Nothing changes with doctors or hospitals other than the system of payment.
    Yes they do, they control the funding for procedures and hand out lists of what is and is not approved for coverage.

    They just won't sign blank checks for care, because the budget would be quickly stripped to nothing.
    Unless you're saying we should go in to greater deficits to provide platinum care for everyone.

    In fact, no single payer system operates how you describe, anywhere.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Yes they do, they control the funding for procedures and hand out lists of what is and is not approved for coverage.

    They just won't sign blank checks for care, because the budget would be quickly stripped to nothing.
    Unless you're saying we should go in to greater deficits to provide platinum care for everyone.

    In fact, no single payer system operates how you describe, anywhere.
    You mean like your insurance company? Sure. But you can still buy more if you can afford it. Nothing would change from how it is run today, before reform. The single payer work work exactly like your insurance company, and if you want more insurance, you can buy more insurance, and if you can pay for more, you will still be able to pay for more. Nothing will change with doctors or hospitals or how care is provided from their POV.

    And yes, they do. But even if they didn't, nothing would prevent us from creating one. As more than a few physicians have said to me, we would have at least a two teired system here. There are others like that, but it would certianly be that way here.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #158
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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You mean like your insurance company? Sure. But you can still buy more if you can afford it. Nothing would change from how it is run today, before reform. The single payer work work exactly like your insurance company, and if you want more insurance, you can buy more insurance, and if you can pay for more, you will still be able to pay for more. Nothing will change with doctors or hospitals or how care is provided from their POV.

    And yes, they do. But even if they didn't, nothing would prevent us from creating one. As more than a few physicians have said to me, we would have at least a two teired system here. There are others like that, but it would certianly be that way here.
    I'm fully aware that you keep on reciting the same nonsense as you have before.

    Single payer is not the same as car insurance.
    Car insurance is for unforeseen events, while single payer is for expected and unexpected events.

    Oh yea the touted two tier system, where the 2nd tier is practically unaccessable to most people.

    A single payer system can not provide unlimited care to everyone, that's utopian nonsense and it has not been done anywhere.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Heh, anyone else notice how the two tier system has an Animal Farm spin to it.

    "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    As best I can figure out, there are no riders nor amendments on the extension bill. However, it actually raises the pentagon budget. You are correct in the rider on the budget compromise negotiations, and yes it is a bull**** move by republicans. In fact, this whole negotiation thing is bull****, and right now it is about two sides who are looking to score points at any cost, and not about solving any problems. Congress and the white house are right now totally and entirely failing the America people and I am pissed.
    So cutting spending to democrat special interest groups is wrong? You show your partisianship

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