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Thread: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

  1. #141
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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Why wouldn't the GOP just ****in vote for universal health care during the reform process?
    bbc this week:

    nhs---20 billion pounds beneath

    "devastating and cruel" delays for treatment, suddenly upped requirements to receive care

    patients must be "more disabled or in greater pain" to qualify

    treatments delayed "UNTIL THE END OF THE FISCAL YEAR"

    and the "invisible wait time:" by not even beginning the referral process a patient ends up wating longer without being "recorded in the official waiting statistics"

    BBC News - Surgeons raise alarm over waiting

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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    ask roger simon's drug tested professional leftists and journolisters who assert that "obama was disengaged until the last 48 hours"

    ask the senate democrats who "in meeting after meeting have berated obama's lack of personal involvement"
    Neither seems to be responding. Perhaps you can tell us why you feel this 'knowledge' is important to you?
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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The elderly are the ones who will have the largest cost increase. This actually will be offset(probably) for those who are now in the top tax bracket, but for most, it will be a huge cost increase. This funds the tax cuts for high income people.
    They should have the largest cost increase though.
    They are costing the system the most.

    The high income tax cuts come at a cost of the the closure of tax loop holes.
    Not only that but the CBO can't accurately analyze the effects it will have on people bringing money back into the states, at a tax lower rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The problem the CBO outlined: private insurance has higher administrative costs and has to turn a profit. The projected costs of insurance premiums for elderly, plus deductible, minus voucher is quite high(number earlier in thread, too busy at the moment to look it up). Further, these same elderly people will be receiving more in benefits than they will be paying in premiums plus voucher. This cost will have to be made up by the rest of the populace, who will face higher insurance premiums. In other words, what happens is that, in order to save money, every one pays more money.
    Did they calculate the potential reduction in fraudulent claims and in the reduction in over usage of services?
    Medicare already costs more than what elderly have paid in.
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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Why wouldn't the GOP just ****in vote for universal health care during the reform process?
    Because UHC is the worst possible solution. Every Country it's tried in starts well and deteriorates, like ANY GOVERNMENT WELFARE SYSTEM. Just like SS, Medicaide and Medicare it starts out small (ish) and grows into an unstoppable, unwieldy behemoth that breaks the budget.

    UHC is a non-answer, and those pushing for it should be mocked out of any rationale discussion about how to make healthcare better in this country.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Because UHC is the worst possible solution. Every Country it's tried in starts well and deteriorates, like ANY GOVERNMENT WELFARE SYSTEM. Just like SS, Medicaide and Medicare it starts out small (ish) and grows into an unstoppable, unwieldy behemoth that breaks the budget.

    UHC is a non-answer, and those pushing for it should be mocked out of any rationale discussion about how to make healthcare better in this country.
    How do you explain the deterioration and increased costs of our system, where we spend more less?

    I think you are making an inaccurate generalization based on misinformation.

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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Because UHC is the worst possible solution. Every Country it's tried in starts well and deteriorates, like ANY GOVERNMENT WELFARE SYSTEM. Just like SS, Medicaide and Medicare it starts out small (ish) and grows into an unstoppable, unwieldy behemoth that breaks the budget.

    UHC is a non-answer, and those pushing for it should be mocked out of any rationale discussion about how to make healthcare better in this country.
    Way to miss the point.

    The GOP put in riders that are ideologically untenable for the Democrats with the sole purpose of getting them to vote against the bill. UHC was an example of a rider that the GOP would never vote for. It doesn't matter what the bill is, if Democrats put a rider on a bill that implements UHC, the GOP will vote against it. It's not governing.
    Last edited by Deuce; 04-08-11 at 03:08 PM.
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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    They should have the largest cost increase though.
    They are costing the system the most.

    The high income tax cuts come at a cost of the the closure of tax loop holes.
    Not only that but the CBO can't accurately analyze the effects it will have on people bringing money back into the states, at a tax lower rate.
    The problem is the number is in the realm of simply not affordable by a large portion of the elderly. A thousand a month just for health care is out of reach for a large portion of those elderly people.

    Did they calculate the potential reduction in fraudulent claims and in the reduction in over usage of services?
    Medicare already costs more than what elderly have paid in.
    The first would be under administrative costs, the second I am not sure on.
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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Oh, and HG...to be clear, Ryan's plan is not all bad. There are good things in it. However, overall it is not workable and incomplete and unpassable. I personally prefer to do things just like I suggested during the health care debate, incrementally. Make some changes, let them take effect, see the results, make more changes. What Ryan's plan does is, like the health care reform bill, makes huge changes all in a fairly short period with it being difficult at best to undo things if they go wrong.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The problem is the number is in the realm of simply not affordable by a large portion of the elderly. A thousand a month just for health care is out of reach for a large portion of those elderly people.
    The elderly poverty rate is about on par or a little lower than the average population and means testing should be done, but never the less, they cost more money than what we can afford.

    There is no practical "other" option but to reduce services for them on some level.
    They already get the most tax dollars directed at them, while at the same time having some of the lowest tax rates of anyone because of their age, which is dumb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The first would be under administrative costs, the second I am not sure on.
    I'll look into it more.
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    Re: Obama vows to veto short-term bill(edited)

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    How do you explain the deterioration and increased costs of our system, where we spend more less?

    I think you are making an inaccurate generalization based on misinformation.
    No I'm not.

    UHC leads to a bureaucratic medical system that puts patients second in the equation. Look at Canada, and the UK. Sure, for basic walk in check up stuff, it's great, the masses are happy. What happens when you need real treatment?


    Aha. There is the problem. Look at the problem the UK is facing. Take heart bypass for example, they ended up BUYING a Private hospital over there, to get wait times to three weeks. Three WEEKS! It wads 6 MONTHS before that.

    You cannot centrally plan and manage the healthcare of a population, it just doesn't work. You create a dependent population, you drain resources and who suffers? The people.

    It's just how it happens.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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