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Misbehaving Boy, 8, Pepper Sprayed By Police

I think that you have been greatly blessed. It would appear that you have never encountered a truly berserk 8yo who is truly willing to inflict grave bodily harm on others, and has a weapon in hand and will use it.

It is not quite as simple a picture as you paint it.

A simple thanks on this post isn't enough. This is why I was hoping to see you or Caine show up in the thread. I'd love to see your take on "taking it to the next level" that apdst spoke that all cops are taught not to do. IE they shouldn't have pepper sprayed the kid because that was "taking it to the next level" because he wasn't actively stabbing anyone (but somehow subduing him wouldn't be "taking it to the next level"). The whole thing from apdst made little sense to me as it was horribly illogical, especially considering what he was saying, but perhaps you could explain it better.

Glad to see that my thoughts regarding which way was safer, and liability, were correct though.
 
apdst, if this was your kid and this had happened, what would you do to him afterwards?

Would you punish him further?

After all his behaviour is a reflection on your parenting skills.

I don't have sons (thank God) but if he were my son, he would be grounded FOREVER with everything taken out of his room except his bed, dresser, desk and books... no MP3, no iPod, no video games, no TV... nothing... I am sick of these spoiled brats...
 
A simple thanks on this post isn't enough. This is why I was hoping to see you or Caine show up in the thread. I'd love to see your take on "taking it to the next level" that apdst spoke that all cops are taught not to do. IE they shouldn't have pepper sprayed the kid because that was "taking it to the next level" because he wasn't actively stabbing anyone (but somehow subduing him wouldn't be "taking it to the next level"). The whole thing from apdst made little sense to me as it was horribly illogical, especially considering what he was saying, but perhaps you could explain it better.

Glad to see that my thoughts regarding which way was safer, and liability, were correct though.


An anecdote or two from my cop days might help explain things a bit.

We're taught and trained to respect edged/pointed weapons. We watch videos that show officers getting stabbed by perps, that show how a perp can run 25' and stab you in the time it takes to draw and fire twice. We see pics of cops that didn't go home, pics that show their death wounds by knives, and it is quite gruesome. We're taught that any perp with a edged/pointed weapon who is inside 25' and moving forward is SHOOTABLE. We're taught to try to keep 25' from any perp that has a blade or shank during any attempt to "negotiate a surrender".

Now consider a classroom with a berserk 8 year old in it, holding a shank (improvised stabbing implement), and likely pacing around like a caged tiger, making threats. Hard to keep 25' from him at all times, and to make sure no one else gets too close to him, etc.

"Take control of the scene" is one police adage. "Neutralize imminent threats of grave bodily harm" is another.

I once did a "negotiated surrender" of a perp who had an edged weapon. He had it in his hand, but he wasn't running around making threats. He stood in one place and didn't move while I talked to him, which is a good thing for him; if he'd moved towards me or anyone else he'd have gotten shot. If we'd had tasers back then, or if I'd been carrying OC at the time, he would have gotten sprayed or zapped if he didn't cooperate immediately. You can't take chances with this stuff; the human body is fragile and very very vulnerable to stabs. A 2" blade can create a 4" deep wound through tissue compression, and there are a number of places on the body where a 4" deep stab can be fatal or at least life-threatening.

Even in my day, nearly a decade-and-a-half past, we were taught to take knives and shanks VERY seriously. Nowadays they have tasers and everyone has OC. That's good because it reduces injuries and deaths of suspects and officers alike. If you've never tried to grapple with someone who has an edged weapon you don't know how hairy that is, how easily someone can suffer a critical injury.

Probably most people don't know how much effort is required to drive a pointed object between someone's ribs and into their lung. Regrettably, I do know exactly how much effort is required, and it is almost effortless. A healthy 8yo boy could do it with ease.
 
This is the big elephant in the room no one talks about in the age of 'blame it all on some psychological disorder'. The stigma will follow these kids throughout their lives and they will never have a chance. It will affect their ability to get a job, get a driver's license, join the military, get credit and also to get insurance among many other things we take for granted in life. Thank you very much American Psychiatric Association.

I'm not saying there aren't real cases of psychosis but good lord, it has gotten out of hand. All in the name of drumming up more business. Shame, shame, shame on them. Whenever I see a kid like this one who spouts some mumbo-jumbo about their disorder it makes me cringe. No kid could come up with it on their own. It has been drummed into their heads that they are deficient and that they therefore have an excuse for adding badly.

As a member of said guild, I dont deny there is a tendency to go overbaord with diagnosis. I've said it here myself many times (and man...you want to watch people lose gaskets becoming defensive of their 'disorders'...). That being said...I dont think the APA, ACA, and AMA are the cause. You want to assign blame...look to a society that has totally abandoned the concept of personal responsibility. nothing is anyones fault anymore. The main shame (secondary being that many truly capable people are trapped in a lifetime of pain and misery due to mis and overdiagnosis) is that those that ARE truly disordered are lost in the shuffle and necessary resources are squandered. People are all treated the same based not on individual need but on the label and diagnosis dujoir.
 
I saw an ~8 year old boy in Iraq try to slit a soldier's throat with a shank hidden under his robe.

I've seen an 8 year old literally take a mouth-sized bite out of a careless social workers forearm.
 
I don't have sons (thank God) but if he were my son, he would be grounded FOREVER with everything taken out of his room except his bed, dresser, desk and books... no MP3, no iPod, no video games, no TV... nothing... I am sick of these spoiled brats...

Honestly...had it been one of my sons I'd have given him **** about how it was a shame he didnt have a burrito to go with that pepper spray.
 
Honestly...had it been one of my sons I'd have given him **** about how it was a shame he didnt have a burrito to go with that pepper spray.

oh, hell yeah. my kid would have earned the nickname "Dr Pepper" for at least several months.
 
All of those cops should be fired, if not imprisoned. It was an 8 year old boy. What has gone so wrong in this country that several adults can't think of any way to deal with a child other than to pepper spray him. I'd like 5 minutes alone with those tough guys that thought that pepper spray was appropriate here.
 
All of those cops should be fired, if not imprisoned. It was an 8 year old boy. What has gone so wrong in this country that several adults can't think of any way to deal with a child other than to pepper spray him. I'd like 5 minutes alone with those tough guys that thought that pepper spray was appropriate here.

I rather see people like you spend 5 minutes alone with that little animal and try to talk him down.
 
All of those cops should be fired, if not imprisoned. It was an 8 year old boy. What has gone so wrong in this country that several adults can't think of any way to deal with a child other than to pepper spray him. I'd like 5 minutes alone with those tough guys that thought that pepper spray was appropriate here.

So rather than acting in a fashion that was likely safest for both parties involved and involved the least amount of liability potentially costing tax payers money, you'd instead want the cops to do what after attempts to calm the child down by teachers and the police did nothing?
 
All of those cops should be fired, if not imprisoned. It was an 8 year old boy. What has gone so wrong in this country that several adults can't think of any way to deal with a child other than to pepper spray him. I'd like 5 minutes alone with those tough guys that thought that pepper spray was appropriate here.

Oh joy... another 'Hey, I want to beat up those ***** cops' poster :rolleyes:
 
All of those cops should be fired, if not imprisoned. It was an 8 year old boy. What has gone so wrong in this country that several adults can't think of any way to deal with a child other than to pepper spray him. I'd like 5 minutes alone with those tough guys that thought that pepper spray was appropriate here.

I ain't exactly a cop's best friend, but in this case I wouldn't fire or punish the cops. Kid got his comeuppance.
 
I dont know about you, but if my kid was waiving a board at cops he's going to get what he gets. At least to a certain extent. My son is only 6 but if he threatening officers, and acting like this and got pepper sprayed he's getting his ass whooped too. I teach my kids to respect the law, and his teachers. If he refuses to listen I dont expect the police to coddle him. I could see your point if they actually beat your kid, but to pepper spray a child who has every intention of hurting others is not out of line.
 
If it were my kid, my response to the police would have been "Hey, can I get one of those cans of pepper spray?"
 
If it were my kid, my response to the police would have been "Hey, can I get one of those cans of pepper spray?"

I have one in the glove box of my car and threaten my kids with it on a regular basis. "If you kids don't STFU, I'm getting the OC"
 
At 8 years old I was physically able to compete with my mother at sports like Tennis. An 8 year old can easily be dangerous. Was it the perferct solution? No. Was it quick and safe? Yes.
 
All of those cops should be fired, if not imprisoned. It was an 8 year old boy. What has gone so wrong in this country that several adults can't think of any way to deal with a child other than to pepper spray him. I'd like 5 minutes alone with those tough guys that thought that pepper spray was appropriate here.

:mrgreen: :bringit: :beat:
 
Even in my day, nearly a decade-and-a-half past, we were taught to take knives and shanks VERY seriously. Nowadays they have tasers and everyone has OC. That's good because it reduces injuries and deaths of suspects and officers alike. If you've never tried to grapple with someone who has an edged weapon you don't know how hairy that is, how easily someone can suffer a critical injury.

People who don't take knives seriously are funny. I was reading about a self-defense instructor who was having an argument-- all amiable like-- with a couple of rowdy fellows about how useful a knife really was in a clinch. Now, they're safe in the gym so they reckon a practical demonstration is in order. They square up and one of the rowdy fellows tackles the instructor to the ground and controls one of his arms. With the other arm, the instructor reaches one of the other training knives and drags it real casual across the other guy's neck and then pokes him in the ribs a couple of times for good measure. The guy on the receiving end of this got the point real quick. The other guys are sitting there arguing "you tackled him." "But he cut my throat." "But you tackled him."

Guess they didn't quite understand the disparity in the damages involved.
 
Say what you want...
But it's pathetic to see a 8 years old that is tougher than a trained cops.

Luckily they didn't shoot the kid.

Btw I don't hate cops, I just don't like the corrupted idiot cops.
 
Say what you want...
But it's pathetic to see a 8 years old that is tougher than a trained cops.

Luckily they didn't shoot the kid.

Btw I don't hate cops, I just don't like the corrupted idiot cops.

The thing that those against the cops' action are missing is the fact that the cops could have easily taken the kid physically, but they would have also taken on the very real chance that the kid would have gotten hurt during the confrontation, even if just a sprain or bruise, but possibly a broken bone or worse depending on how the kid fought back. By using the pepper spray, there was no lasting damage to the kid and zero injuries to the cops.
 
did everyone miss the part where they said no harm came to the squirrel and it was released into the wild?

Much better to accidentally step on it or crush it with a box while trying to capture it 'humanely', huh.
 
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