Page 21 of 34 FirstFirst ... 11192021222331 ... LastLast
Results 201 to 210 of 340

Thread: Misbehaving Boy, 8, Pepper Sprayed By Police

  1. #201
    Sage


    MaggieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    43,243
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: Misbehaving Boy, 8, Pepper Sprayed By Police

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    Isn't it flawed to say that a substance which is intentionally made to be an irritant causes reactions? That's the whole point of OC... If it didn't have any effects, you might as well use a squirt gun on people.
    Link that it works by causing an allergic reaction? It works because it's a natural skin irritant. A fatal allergic reaction can include full out anaphylactic shock.

    @ Oscar -- I supported the coppers earlier in this thread and happened to think about the allergic reaction possibility. To say the only two choices were nothing and pepper spray is a little extreme, no?
    Last edited by MaggieD; 04-07-11 at 05:18 PM.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  2. #202
    Can't stop the signal...
    theangryamerican's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    The Wild West
    Last Seen
    07-29-13 @ 11:50 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,233

    Re: Misbehaving Boy, 8, Pepper Sprayed By Police

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Link that it works by causing an allergic reaction? It works because it's a natural skin irritant. A fatal allergic reaction can include full out anaphylactic shock.

    @ Oscar -- I supported the coppers earlier in this thread and happened to think about the allergic reaction possibility. To say the only two choices were nothing and pepper spray is a little extreme, no?
    Your article only mentioned 1 in 100 people having some sort of "reaction." I'd call swollen eyes, closed throat and burning skin a "reaction" wouldn't you? There are no documented cases I know of where OC spray alone caused a fatality in an otherwise healthy human being. Can you prove otherwise?

    Maggie, I'll lay out the same scenario for you that I did for apdst ealier in the thread:

    You are in your house minding your own business, when you hear screams from outside. You run out the front door to see your own child being attacked by a young neighbor boy wielding a stabbing implement of some sort. Your child is on the ground about to be seriously hurt or perhaps killed. The aggressor spots you and makes a taunting remark. You have seconds to react. What do you do to deescalate the situation?

    Now, you don’t actually have to answer that, but my point here is that you don’t bother to ask the kid his age. You DON’T try to do anything that would make the situation more dangerous. You try to resolve the situation as effectively and quickly as possible given the means at your disposal. Now put yourself in the officers’ shoes. You’re in a similar situation, but you have a tactical belt with OC spray, possibly a taser and a firearm. Which do you employ to defuse the situation?

    Sure, you could try to tackle the kid, but he’s already threatened you. What if you hurt him in the struggle? Worse, what if he manages to get one of those tools off your belt and use it against you?

    You could shoot him for advancing on you with a potentially deadly weapon. Officers have done it before in similar situations, but I think we can both agree this is probably not the best choice here.

    You could taser him, but we all know how much the media loves a tasering story, and there have been certain reports that that amount of electrical shock can be dangerous to younger individuals

    …or you could OC spray him. His eyes will water and burn, his skin will turn red, but he’ll drop the weapon and likely not put up much more of a struggle. It takes a very determined attacker to keep up an offense after being sprayed, and as soon as he’s disarmed you can take him outside to the paramedics. He’ll be fine in an hour at most and no one got hurt.
    Last edited by theangryamerican; 04-07-11 at 05:24 PM.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

  3. #203
    Sage
    whysoserious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Last Seen
    12-29-16 @ 03:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    8,170

    Re: Misbehaving Boy, 8, Pepper Sprayed By Police

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Link that it works by causing an allergic reaction? It works because it's a natural skin irritant. A fatal allergic reaction can include full out anaphylactic shock.

    @ Oscar -- I supported the coppers earlier in this thread and happened to think about the allergic reaction possibility. To say the only two choices were nothing and pepper spray is a little extreme, no?
    Some people do have allergic reactions to pepper spray and it has been known to actually cause death from choking. For most people it just sucks really bad.

    *Edit:

    To clarify, I am not anti-pepper spray or anti-taser, but both have the risk of causing death. However, if used properly, they should really only be used when absolutely necessary anyway.
    Last edited by whysoserious; 04-07-11 at 05:30 PM.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

  4. #204
    pirate lover
    liblady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    St Thomas, VI
    Last Seen
    03-14-16 @ 03:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    16,165
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Misbehaving Boy, 8, Pepper Sprayed By Police

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    Your article only mentioned 1 in 100 people having some sort of "reaction." I'd call swollen eyes, closed throat and burning skin a "reaction" wouldn't you? There are no documented cases I know of where OC spray alone caused a fatality in an otherwise healthy human being. Can you prove otherwise?

    Maggie, I'll lay out the same scenario for you that I did for apdst ealier in the thread:
    here:

    http://www.aclu-sc.org/attach/p/Pepp..._Questions.pdf

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  5. #205
    Can't stop the signal...
    theangryamerican's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    The Wild West
    Last Seen
    07-29-13 @ 11:50 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    2,233

    Re: Misbehaving Boy, 8, Pepper Sprayed By Police

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    Intersting read, but you can't even get beyond the first page without the red flags raising. 16,000 uses of OC spray and only 26 deaths? First of all that's a far from terrible track record even if every single one of those 26 were caused by the OC alone, but the article goes on to say that it can't prove ANY of them were.

    Half of the victims were placed in a controversial police restraint called the hog-tie just after they were pepper-sprayed and just before they died. In half of all cases, the types of police restraint techniques used were was identified as contributing to the cause of death or the primary cause of death..
    ...drugs and alcohol were involved in 24 of the 26 cases

    Below is the strongest statement that they can come up with and even that isn't very conclusive

    In a 1994 paper, the Cal-EPA’s Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment (OEHHA) concluded that, “although it is clear that the medical examiners have thus far not made an association between OC use and these deaths, we are still concerned that in each incident, untoward reactions to OC may have been a contributing cause of death or exacerbated underlying conditions such as pre-existing disease or drug use, to cause cardiac or respiratory failure.”

    Here's a pretty fair take on it, but still no proof of deaths caused solely by the OC on totally healthy individuals.

    The European Parliament Scientific and Technological Options Assessment (STOA) published in 1998 “An Appraisal of Technologies of Political Control”[5] with extensive information on pepper spray and tear gas. They write:

    "The effects of pepper spray are far more severe, including temporary blindness which lasts from 15-30 minutes, a burning sensation of the skin which lasts from 45 to 60 minutes, upper body spasms which force a person to bend forward and uncontrollable coughing making it difficult to breathe or speak for between 3 to 15 minutes."
    For those with asthma, taking other drugs, or subject to restraining techniques which restrict the breathing passages, there is a risk of death. The Los Angeles Times has reported at least 61 deaths associated with police use of pepper spray since 1990 in the USA,.[6] The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) documented 27 people in police custody who died after exposure to pepper spray in California since 1993.[2][7][8] However, the ACLU report counts any death occurring within hours of exposure to pepper spray. In all 27 cases, the coroners' report listed other factors as the primary cause of death, though in some cases the use of pepper spray may have been a contributing factor.[2]

    The US Army concluded in a 1993 Aberdeen Proving Ground study that pepper spray could cause "Mutagenic effects, carcinogenic effects, sensitization, cardiovascular and pulmonary toxicity, neurotoxicity, as well as possible human fatalities. There is a risk in using this product on a large and varied population".[9] However, the pepper spray was widely approved in the US despite the reservations of the US military scientists after it passed FBI tests in 1991. As of 1999, it was in use by more than 2000 public safety agencies.[10]
    Pepper spray - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by theangryamerican; 04-07-11 at 05:40 PM.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

  6. #206
    Sage
    Erod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    North Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:54 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,067

    Re: Misbehaving Boy, 8, Pepper Sprayed By Police

    This situation makes a great case for the need to thin the herd from time to time.

    Procreation, much like voting or operating heavy machinery, should require a college degree and a license.

  7. #207
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    In your dreams...
    Last Seen
    05-29-12 @ 02:53 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,621

    Re: Misbehaving Boy, 8, Pepper Sprayed By Police

    This situation makes a great case for the need to thin the herd from time to time.

    Procreation, much like voting or operating heavy machinery, should require a college degree and a license.
    Better cops and better kids... bi-winning.

  8. #208
    Sage
    whysoserious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Last Seen
    12-29-16 @ 03:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    8,170

    Re: Misbehaving Boy, 8, Pepper Sprayed By Police

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    This situation makes a great case for the need to thin the herd from time to time.

    Procreation, much like voting or operating heavy machinery, should require a college degree and a license.
    The real issue is that usually the uneducated are the ones breeding the most.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

  9. #209
    pirate lover
    liblady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    St Thomas, VI
    Last Seen
    03-14-16 @ 03:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    16,165
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Misbehaving Boy, 8, Pepper Sprayed By Police

    Quote Originally Posted by theangryamerican View Post
    Intersting read, but you can't even get beyond the first page without the red flags raising. 16,000 uses of OC spray and only 26 deaths? First of all that's a far from terrible track record even if every single one of those 26 were caused by the OC alone, but the article goes on to say that it can't prove ANY of them were.






    Below is the strongest statement that they can come up with and even that isn't very conclusive




    Here's a pretty fair take on it, but still no proof of deaths caused solely by the OC on totally healthy individuals.



    Pepper spray - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    true....but do yuou really expect an ME to rule that pepper spray was the cause of the death? reminds me of the case in indiana where the 15 yr old was searched, handcuffed (behind his back) and somehow was able to shoot himself in the head while sitting in the back of a police car. ruled a suicide.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  10. #210
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,402

    Re: Misbehaving Boy, 8, Pepper Sprayed By Police

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    my kid wouldn't be breaking trim off the damn wall and trying to attack people with it. blame the frakin parents (or more likely parent) not the cops.
    Ultimately, I blame the faculty.

Page 21 of 34 FirstFirst ... 11192021222331 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •