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Thread: U.S. gay judge never thought to drop marriage case

  1. #41
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    Re: Prop 8 judge admits he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I am not sure if you are aware of the difference between knowing something, and assuming something.
    no, i am not. for example, i am assuming that you read english, and will understand wht I am typing. it seems a pretty safe assumption, but an assumption it remains. but perhaps you could enlighten me and the rest of modern philosophy on the matter.

    Opinion pieces in National Review are so convincing...
    is this your way of tacitly admitting that, yes, the famously left-wing 9th circuit and the Supreme Court both had to step in to tell this guy to behave?

    Funny how you make claims based on slanted editorials, but don't comment on his actual ruling.
    funny how you don't adress the points brought up about the actual ruling.

    So your issue is that he ruled the way you did not want to, without ever actually referring to the ruling he made.
    no, my issue is that he behaved like a bigot and an activist rather than an impartial judge. my problem isn't with the ruling itself, it's with the lack of legal reasoning in the decision, the heavy dependence upon highly questionable "facts" within the decision, and (most critically) how obvious this judge made it that his decision was already made before the case even started.
    Last edited by cpwill; 04-07-11 at 05:01 PM.

  2. #42
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    Re: Prop 8 judge admits he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    it's with the lack of legal reasoning in the decision
    Since I don't think you actually know what the legal reasoning was in the decision, could you please state it?

    Also, exactly which facts were highly questionable and why?

    It's easy to argue that a ruling was bad and biased when you haven't even read it and refuse to actually supplement any of your complaints with actual quotes or segments from the ruling itself. Of course, that isn't debating, that is just being intellectually dishonest.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 04-07-11 at 05:17 PM.

  3. #43
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    Re: Prop 8 judge admits he is gay

    So, reading through the case now, and this provision popped out at me.

    One of the 6 key premises behind prop 8 was the following:

    2. Denial of marriage to same-sex couple allows gays and lesbians to live privately without requiring others, including (perhaps especially) children, to regocnize or acknowledge the existence of same-sex couples;
    Seriously? Gays and lesbians must be relegated to second-class citizens so that others can PRETEND THEY DON'T EXIST AT ALL!?!? And these guys put this into their legal argument.

    ...

    I really have no words to express how screwed up that is. I would need a word several levels past "F" to really describe this.
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    Re: Prop 8 judge admits he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    So, reading through the case now, and this provision popped out at me.

    One of the 6 key premises behind prop 8 was the following:



    Seriously? Gays and lesbians must be relegated to second-class citizens so that others can PRETEND THEY DON'T EXIST AT ALL!?!? And these guys put this into their legal argument.

    ...

    I really have no words to express how screwed up that is. I would need a word several levels past "F" to really describe this.
    The people backing Prop 8 in the court case did such a poor job that it is almost as if they where trying to undermine their own case. Almost no witnesses, almost no presentation and what they did present was incredibly stupid.
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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  5. #45
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    Re: Prop 8 judge admits he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    So, reading through the case now, and this provision popped out at me.

    One of the 6 key premises behind prop 8 was the following:



    Seriously? Gays and lesbians must be relegated to second-class citizens so that others can PRETEND THEY DON'T EXIST AT ALL!?!? And these guys put this into their legal argument.

    ...

    I really have no words to express how screwed up that is. I would need a word several levels past "F" to really describe this.
    But if children recognize that same sex couples exist they will get all confused and it would be really bad!

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    Re: U.S. gay judge never thought to drop marriage case

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    UPDATE 1-U.S. gay judge never thought to drop marriage case | Reuters



    Do you think that the proponents of Prop 8 will bring up Retired Judge Walker's sexual orientation in appeal? Should Walker have recused himself and why?

    In case anyone is interested, here is Walker's full ruling...

    California Prop 8 Ruling (August 2010)

    If you feel that Walker's sexual orientation somehow marred his judgment, then could you please point it out?
    This is equivalent to calling the heterosexual judges traitors for not striking down same sex marriage.

    When are Americans going to stop marginalizing PROFESSIONALS based on details like race, gender, and sexual orientation? Judge Walker is a seasoned veteran in the judicial system with all the knowledge, precedent and powers necessary to make informed decisions. His sexual orientation is completely irrelevant.

    As long as there are gay members of the GOP who vote in favour of conservative social policy, I don't want to hear any whining about decisions like this one.

    Gays are members of this society at all levels and people should just deal with it.

  7. #47
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    Re: Prop 8 judge admits he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Um, not exactly here. This is a poor analogy.

    A Homosexual Judge has something to gain from this, as it essentially bestows the right of marriage upon him (even if he chooses to not have it)

    As the proponents of Same Sex Marriage have said for some time, allowing Gay Marriage doesn't do anything to straight people.

    EVERY gay person gains something from this ruling, even if they don't engage in the act of Marriage becuase they have the ABILITY to. Every straight person doesn't necessarily have a vested stake in this or even the average straight person doesn't have a vested stake that actually legally would affect them. Its far more reasonable to suggest that there would be bias on the part of a Homosexual towards this than there would be suggesting a bias of a striaght person against this.

    The far better analogy would be a Christian Fundamentalist judge, as then it is something going against his religious beliefs and it would be just as reasonable to suggest a bias on the part of him as it would be on the homosexual.

    Now that said, I don't think he should've recused himself, in part for the scenario I said above wouldn't make me think the fundamentalist judge should recuse himself. But the homosexual/straight analogy is a failed one for what you're arguing.
    Congratulations, you've just torpedo'd the fundies arguments for them.

    A straight judge, according to you, must clearly not have something to gain OR lose. Meaning that same-sex marriage does not affect him at all.

    That puts a giant hole in the idea that this is an attack on straight marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Incorrect.

    It bestows upon him a right he previously didn't have. Just because he doesn't choose to exercise that right doesn't mean it doesn't affect him.

    Up until recently I didn't own a gun. I didn't have any immediete plan to buy a gun. However, if they repealed the 2nd amendment it would affect me because it would remove my right to buy one if at some point I ever chose to do it.
    I'm straight and it would bestow upon me a right I didn't previously have as well. (marrying a dude) Just because I don't choose to exercise that right doesn't mean it doesn't affect me.

    I'm straight, therefore I must recuse myself from a gay case, right?
    Last edited by Deuce; 04-08-11 at 01:47 PM.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  8. #48
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    Re: Prop 8 judge admits he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Actually that does not work since the argument against SSM, and it was used in the case, is that SSM would hurt strait marriage. Because of that, a strait judge would have to recuse himself because he is ruling on something that, by their argument, would hurt his marriage or potential marriage.
    Well you're a homoapologist, so you have to recuse yourself, just cause.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Prop 8 judge admits he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Well you're a homoapologist, so you have to recuse yourself, just cause.
    I am an honorary member of the gay mafia as well, so you better not cross me.

    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Prop 8 judge admits he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I am an honorary member of the gay mafia as well, so you better not cross me.

    Sounds like a deal I can't refuse.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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