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Thread: U.S. gay judge never thought to drop marriage case

  1. #21
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    Re: Prop 8 judge admits he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    As far as justice goes, I think he should have dropped himself from the case. I support SSM, but I don't think a gay judge should have ruled on a gay marriage ban especially considering his ruling was nothing more than his personal opinion and not necessarily the law (from what I understand).
    So you didn't read the ruling either?

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    Re: Prop 8 judge admits he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    So you didn't read the ruling either?
    I remember reading snippets of it. From what I gleaned he essentially said that there is no good argument against gay marriage and that it should be legal.
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    Re: Prop 8 judge admits he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I remember reading snippets of it. From what I gleaned he essentially said that there is no good argument against gay marriage and that it should be legal.
    Based upon the facts presented in the case, not his opinion. If you read the full case you can see how the pro Prop 8 people totally dropped the ball.

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    Re: Prop 8 judge admits he is gay

    Whether he should have recused himself or not is less the issue to me than his saying he never even considered the matter.

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    Re: Prop 8 judge admits he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by OhReally? View Post
    Based upon the facts presented in the case, not his opinion. If you read the full case you can see how the pro Prop 8 people totally dropped the ball.
    The full case is over 130 pages long. I read some of it now and what I see is opinions like him saying it's discrimination to prevent lesbians from marrying and things like that.
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    Re: Prop 8 judge admits he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I remember reading snippets of it. From what I gleaned he essentially said that there is no good argument against gay marriage and that it should be legal.
    He found 80 findings of fact based upon expert witness testimony, made a Constitutional argument as to how Prop 8 was gender discrimination that violated equal protection on the grounds of sex, and went through every argument put forth by the proponents and logically debunked each one.

    I provided the link for it on the original post. Why not read through it and actually provide examples of where you think he interjected his personal opinion?

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    Re: Prop 8 judge admits he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Um, not exactly here. This is a poor analogy.

    A Homosexual Judge has something to gain from this, as it essentially bestows the right of marriage upon him (even if he chooses to not have it)

    As the proponents of Same Sex Marriage have said for some time, allowing Gay Marriage doesn't do anything to straight people.

    EVERY gay person gains something from this ruling, even if they don't engage in the act of Marriage becuase they have the ABILITY to. Every straight person doesn't necessarily have a vested stake in this or even the average straight person doesn't have a vested stake that actually legally would affect them. Its far more reasonable to suggest that there would be bias on the part of a Homosexual towards this than there would be suggesting a bias of a striaght person against this.

    The far better analogy would be a Christian Fundamentalist judge, as then it is something going against his religious beliefs and it would be just as reasonable to suggest a bias on the part of him as it would be on the homosexual.

    Now that said, I don't think he should've recused himself, in part for the scenario I said above wouldn't make me think the fundamentalist judge should recuse himself. But the homosexual/straight analogy is a failed one for what you're arguing.
    Actually that does not work since the argument against SSM, and it was used in the case, is that SSM would hurt strait marriage. Because of that, a strait judge would have to recuse himself because he is ruling on something that, by their argument, would hurt his marriage or potential marriage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Prop 8 judge admits he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    He found 80 findings of fact based upon expert witness testimony, made a Constitutional argument as to how Prop 8 was gender discrimination that violated equal protection on the grounds of sex, and went through every argument put forth by the proponents and logically debunked each one.

    I provided the link for it on the original post. Why not read through it and actually provide examples of where you think he interjected his personal opinion?
    The Constitution doesn't protect against gender discrimination. Essentially his ruling was expanding the 14th Amendment to protect sexual orientation. He cites things based on his opinion that the morality of others shouldn't prevent gay marriage. The judge would have a logical case if the Equal Rights Amendment had been ratified into the Constitution. This Amendment would have made it completely illegal to have any discrimination based on gender. However, this was not ratified. Opponents pointed out that ratifying this would make it unconstitutional to have male and female bathrooms and that it would force women into the draft and to register with the selective service. It would force gender equality and ban any form of gender inequality, which in certain circumstances is a bad thing (as with some examples that opponents of the Amendment cited in their arguments). This did not pass, and one cannot say that the Constitution dictates that you can't discriminate on marriage by having the wife role being exclusive to women and the husband role exclusive to men with a marriage being composed of one man and one woman. This judged offered his personal opinion, wrongfully stretched the 14th Amendment, and essentially said it's illegal to define marriage if it doesn't include homosexual unions because that is gender discrimination which under the Constitution is not necessarily unconstitutional. The Amendment failed for a reason, it's not in our Constitution. If it had passed then he would have a case when it came to banning men from legally being wives and from wives from legally being husbands.

    Personally I believe we should allow SSM, I believe that two consenting adults should be allowed to enter into their own marriage contract. However, there is no Constitutional legal basis that forces SSM to become law. The Constitution is basically silent in regards to sexuality and marriage. It's wrong to warp the laws and force SSM to become legal when the Constitution doesn't support that. What it does support is democracy, and democratically (and legally) Prop 8 should have stood. Numerous states have passed similar amendments which have gone to court where the ruling was that the passed amendments were legal and upheld.
    Last edited by digsbe; 04-07-11 at 11:46 AM.
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    Re: Prop 8 judge admits he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    um. it was pretty much commonly understood the entire time. sort of like how everyone knew that Obama wouldn't fight for traditional marriage though he pretty promised that he supported it to get elected. I've been aware of it certainly since it got assigned to him.
    I am not sure if you are aware of the difference between knowing something, and assuming something.

    the Supreme Court had to step in to rein in this guys' shennanigans.
    Opinion pieces in National Review are so convincing...

    to cap; he did everything legal (and some things illegal) in his courtroom to tilt the room against Prop 8, made quite clear his conclusion was foregone, and then produced a ruling built around a series of "just-so" "findings of fact" that interposed his opinions in place of a legal argument.
    Funny how you make claims based on slanted editorials, but don't comment on his actual ruling.

    a straight judge that acted in a similar manner probably should have.
    So your issue is that he ruled the way you did not want to, without ever actually referring to the ruling he made.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Prop 8 judge admits he is gay

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Judge Walkers False Facts:
    1. a constitutional amendment that carries with it the weight of the tradition of millenia as nothing more than a "private moral view" that can be discounted as meaningless
    2. that he has the right to decide that A) california voters are just a bunch of bigots and B) that therefore their votes don't count.
    3. that Prop 8 used the law to attack homosexuals.
    1) appeal to tradition is a logical fallacy.
    2) He did not decide this
    3) not quite what the decision actually says. He is the actual line from the actual decision: "Religious beliefs that gay and lesbian relationships are sinful or inferior to heterosexual relationships harm gays and lesbians". Are you trying to say this is not true?

    Have you read the decision? Can you actually argue against his findings?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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