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ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Registration Fraud in Nevada

Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

The Prof said:
LOL!

Obama Concedes Shellacking - WSJ.com
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I said "ideas" not persuasion methods. The Republicans have got the latter DOWN!

And considering popular attitudes vis-a-vis the Tea Party at this moment in time, I doubt the "shellacking" in question would have occured today.

And this trend would certainly have precluded my use of your example in support of a post.

I was referring to the plummeting acceptance of this season's Republican "messaging".

I posit it is a consequence of the Armitage/Koch attempt at astroturfing existing Tea Party groups. They planned to use them to make noise in opposition to healthcare reform.

They DID NOT, imho, intend for the Tea Party to seize the reins and turn the whole thing into a real movement.

As a result, what the PR industry refers to as a "crisis management response" was developed and implemented prior to the last election to prevent this unexpected complication from possibly costing the Republicans seats.

The problem lies in having to go "off-message" in mid stream.

First, they had to determine what planks of the platform the two subsets still held in common, and what they did not.

Then they had to craft new "memes", or spin, or whatever you choose to call manufactured ideas. Ones that would resonate enough with both mainstream Reps. and Tea Party Reps. to hold them together through the election, without alienating independents.

They obviously managed to put enough super glue and duct tape on that mess to hold it together through the election, but its unravelling now.

Too much was cobbled together at the last minute, and the whole "messaging" structure that has been laid down over the past 30 years has been compromised as a result.

THAT'S why both sides of the normally undivided Republican Party are looking at each other like they're crazy.

Because cognitive dissonance makes one a little crazy.

At least that's how I see it. :2wave:
 
Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

Deuce said:
And they certainly wouldn't mention that this law exists in the first place because a Republican organization was throwing out voter registrations when peopled checked the (D) box.
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It's not about why the law was signed. Though, that being said, it's ridiculous to think that the company as a whole is trying to "buy" or throw elections. Or is it? I mean it's possible but probably not plausible.
 
Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

Ron Mars said:
That's all well and good. I realize that voter fraud and false regestrations have been going on for years.

ACORN and Project Vote have bee caught doing this in virtually every state. This is an organized nationwide effort.

Nobody at a polling station is going to see these fake voters. They are voting by absentee ballots.
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Yes, but unless the registrar of voters where you are operates radically differently than it does here in CA, voter registrations are verified. Names are checked against DL records, SS numbers, etc..

Are there loopholes or whatever that could be exploited to pad ballot boxes?

Certainly. Every state has their own rules and procedures, and people are great at figuring how to get around rules.

But the "turn in fake applications for absentee ballots and thus steal an election" simply couldn't have happened as a result of the increased difficulty in obtaining the necessary identitification to do it.

Here in Cali anyway.

So unless the groups you mention are engaging in some other method to commit voter fraud, I still have to disagree with your premise. :2wave:
 
Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

What if...? said:
I was referring to the plummeting acceptance of this season's Republican "messaging".
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tell it to cuomo and brown---twenty to fifty BILLION dollars in CUTS, with NO NEW TAXES, in new york and california alone

that aint messaging

it's a DONE DEAL

stay up
 
Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

Ron Mars said:
How about massive voter registration fraud and "advising" clients how to falsify documents to open a prostitution house.

Is that enough of a reason to at least stop giving ACORN taxpayer money?
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Could you please define massive as used in your post? Also, can you prove that ACORN advised clients how to falsify documents to open a prostitution house before James O'Keefe made his bogus videos?
 
Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

pbrauer said:
Could you please define massive as used in your post? Also, can you prove that ACORN advised clients how to falsify documents to open a prostitution house before James O'Keefe made his bogus videos?
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Get a grip there Pete but I saw Acorn workers advising who they thought were a prostitute and pimp how they could files false information to get loans.

Chances are there were thousands of fraudulent voter registration in all these states. They should be shut down for good.
 
Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

The Prof said:
tell it to cuomo and brown---twenty to fifty BILLION dollars in CUTS, with NO NEW TAXES, in new york and california alone

that aint messaging

it's a DONE DEAL

stay up
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Its the "all on the backs of the middle class and poor" component that people aren't so sure about anymore.

And the "its a bad idea to raise taxes on anyone in a recession" line doesn't quite justify cutting existing taxes on business and the fiscal elites one day, and then claiming they're broke and have to make cuts to save the country the next.

And the intentional fomenting of hatred of anyone questioning the conservative "messaging" simply runs too contrary to our national self-image to be maintained indefinitely.

If you need more examples I have lots. :2wave:
 
Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

Councilman said:
Get a grip there Pete but I saw Acorn workers advising who they thought were a prostitute and pimp how they could files false information to get loans.
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You saw a duplicitous edited series of scenes set up by a convicted liar, and you know nothing of what the workers were thinking.

Chances are there were thousands of fraudulent voter registration in all these states. They should be shut down for good.
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Fraudulent registrations which nobody can use do not affect the outcome of elections. ACORN no longer exists.
 
Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

mtlhdtodd said:
Not hard to do just Google Acorn and voter (registration) fraud and look at the number of states they have done this in Wa, Mi, Mo, Wi to name a few
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Again, nothing as uncovered voter fraud. Mickey Mouse never went to the polls. You should do a search and learn about what really happened.
 
Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

What if...? said:
Its the "all on the backs of the middle class and poor" component that people aren't so sure about anymore.
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NY's Cuomo slashes spending, freezes taxes in budget | Reuters

Capitol Alert: Jerry Brown signs $11.2 billion in budget solutions

Jerry Brown Abandons Ballot Initiative | Seven Days | The Weekly News Roundup | East Bay Express

And the "its a bad idea to raise taxes on anyone in a recession" line doesn't quite justify cutting existing taxes on business and the fiscal elites
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Obama Calls Tax Cuts the 'Right Thing to Do'

At Obama's side, Clinton backs tax deal - Politics - White House - msnbc.com

If you need more examples I have lots.
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opinions aren't examples

not interesting
 
Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

pbrauer said:
can you prove that ACORN advised clients how to falsify documents to open a prostitution house before James O'Keefe made his bogus videos?
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pelosi, reid and more than 70% of their voting cauci sure got suckered
 
Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

nyt, july, 08:

Acorn chose to treat the embezzlement of nearly $1 million eight years ago as an internal matter and did not even notify its board. A whistle-blower forced Acorn to disclose the embezzlement, which involved the brother of the organization’s founder, Wade Rathke. The brother, Dale Rathke, embezzled nearly $1 million from Acorn and affiliated charitable organizations in 1999 and 2000, Acorn officials said, but a small group of executives decided to keep the information from almost all of the group’s board members and not to alert law enforcement.

Dale Rathke remained on Acorn’s payroll until a month ago, when disclosure of his theft by foundations and other donors forced the organization to dismiss him. “We thought it best at the time to protect the organization, as well as to get the funds back into the organization, to deal with it in-house,” said Maude Hurd, president of Acorn. “It was a judgment call at the time, and looking back, people can agree or disagree with it, but we did what we thought was right.”

The amount Dale Rathke embezzled, $948,607.50, was carried as a loan on the books of Citizens Consulting Inc., which provides bookkeeping, accounting and other financial management services to Acorn and many of its affiliated entities. Wade Rathke said the organization had signed a restitution agreement with his brother in which his family agreed to repay the amount embezzled in exchange for confidentiality. Wade Rathke stepped down as Acorn’s chief organizer on June 2, the same day his brother left, but he remains chief organizer for Acorn International L.L.C.

He said the decision to keep the matter secret was not made to protect his brother but because word of the embezzlement would have put a “weapon” into the hands of enemies of Acorn, a liberal group that is a frequent target of conservatives who object to its often strident advocacy on behalf of low- and moderate-income families and workers. The executive director of New York Acorn, Bertha Lewis, who has been named director of an interim management committee set up to run the national group’s day-to-day operations, said Dale Rathke was paid about $38,000 a year but that none of that money was used to pay back Acorn.

Instead, she said, the Rathke family has paid Acorn $30,000 a year in restitution since 2001, or a total of $210,000. A donor has offered to give Acorn the rest of what the Rathkes owe, and an agreement to that effect should be finalized in coming days, Ms. Lewis said. But the fact that most of the handful of people who did not disclose the fraud when they learned of it eight years ago still work for Acorn or its affiliates concerns many of the group’s financial supporters.
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Funds Misappropriated at Nonprofit Groups - NYTimes.com

ugly

why did so many dems vote to d-e-f-u-n-d?
 
Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

pbrauer said:
Could you please define massive as used in your post?
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Tens of thousands in dozens of states. For the link dependent: http://rottenacorn.com/activityMap.html

pbrauer said:
Also, can you prove that ACORN advised clients how to falsify documents to open a prostitution house before James O'Keefe made his bogus videos?
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I believe it was more that one. Something like 3-5.

But of course these are the only times ACORN advised people to falsify documents.

O'Keefe just happened to catch all 3-5 on tape. What luck! Couldn't have happened before or since.
 
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Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

What if...? said:
Yes, but unless the registrar of voters where you are operates radically differently than it does here in CA, voter registrations are verified. Names are checked against DL records, SS numbers, etc..

Are there loopholes or whatever that could be exploited to pad ballot boxes?

Certainly. Every state has their own rules and procedures, and people are great at figuring how to get around rules.

But the "turn in fake applications for absentee ballots and thus steal an election" simply couldn't have happened as a result of the increased difficulty in obtaining the necessary identitification to do it.

Here in Cali anyway.

So unless the groups you mention are engaging in some other method to commit voter fraud, I still have to disagree with your premise. :2wave:
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If ACORN and Project Vote get nothing out of it why are they trying to register fake voters?
 
Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

Manc Skipper said:
You saw a duplicitous edited series of scenes set up by a convicted liar, and you know nothing of what the workers were thinking.
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We don't know their inner thoughts that's true. We don't have to.

ACORN's taped "advice" on how to falsify documents in multiple locations speaks for itself.

If O'Keefe was a lefty exposing a right wing organization deliberately committing fraud in elections he would be showered with awards and praise.

There are still people willing to defend ACORN. Could that have anythig to do with their former lawyer? Could be.

Manc Skipper said:
Fraudulent registrations which nobody can use do not affect the outcome of elections. ACORN no longer exists.
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It's not the fraudulent registrations that are discovered. It's the ones they miss.

lefties could care less an organization is deliberately attempting to register fake voters. They don't even care ACORN has been convicted many times of trying to hide that fact.

Let me put it in words that might help you understand:

A nationwide group closely tied to Republicans, with George W. Bush as their former lawyer, has been convicted numerous times for trying to register fake voters.

Does that help?
 
Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

Again Ron, fake registrations mean nothing to the election. Fake voting does. There has been no evidence of voter fraud.
 
Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

FYI Boo. I do not respond to your posts anymore.

You have demonstrated on numerous occasions that you are not a serious or credible poster.

Please put me on your ignore list.
 
Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

Ron Mars said:
FYI Boo. I do not respond to your posts anymore.

You have demonstrated on numerous occasions that you are not a serious or credible poster.

Please put me on your ignore list.
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:lamo :lamo :lamo

Meaning you're projecting and have nothing to offer factually. Gotcha. :coffeepap
 
Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

Redress said:
This is exactly my thinking on the whole thing. I want to feel bad for ACORN, since the idea of getting people registered to vote seems like a positive thing. But when I heard they where giving bonuses for numbers, that kind of stupidity is beyond belief and I just can't manage to feel sorry for them.

I don't see ACORN as some evil group, merely really really stupid and poorly run.
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It was a $5 bonus. There were going to be lazy employees with or without the bonus.
 
Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

Deuce said:
It was a $5 bonus. There were going to be lazy employees with or without the bonus.
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Why is it always ACORN and their sub-groups like Project Vote who get convicted of turning in tens of thousands of false registration forms?

Bad advice from their lawyers?
 
Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

Ron Mars said:
Why is it always ACORN and their sub-groups like Project Vote who get convicted of turning in tens of thousands of false registration forms?

Bad advice from their lawyers?
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Let me google that for you

They weren't "convicted of turning in false registrations." (Thanks Fox News) The organization ACORN was legally required to turn in registrations, even the ones they know to be false. They did so, flagging those registrations and turned over the responsible employees to the election board and police.
 
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Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

Has anyone commented on the ACTUAL news item? Talk about jumping the shark.

ACORN hasn't gone away unfortunately.

Community organizers never go away, they just transmogrify like Dracula turning into a swarm of rats.
 
Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

Paschendale said:
So, let me see if I have the facts here correct.

A few employees of an organization that is responsible for registering voters were being paid in a manner that is legal in many states, but not legal in Nevada. Those same employees chose, of their own volition, to fake paperwork to trick that organization into paying them more money. These employees were found out by the organization and reported, and the fake registrations were annulled so that no fake votes could be cast. And no fake votes were cast. The employees were brought to justice, and the organization they worked for has correctly decided not to clog the legal system in trying to pretend that they didn't employ this unorthodox payment tactic, and are justly paying for it in Nevada. This same payment style is legal in many other states and apparently works just fine there.

Why is the outrage directed at ACORN as a whole, and not at the specific people who broke the law? I thought people being responsible for their own actions was a major tenant of conservativism and libertarianism.
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Let me get this straight, managers aren't responsible for their employees' actions on behalf of the company?
 
Re: ACORN Pleads Guilty to Voter Fraud

American said:
Let me get this straight, managers aren't responsible for their employees' actions on behalf of the company?
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Not if they discover the crime and turn it over to the proper authorities promptly, no, they aren't criminally liable for those actions.

Responsible? Yes. Sure. That doesn't mean they're corrupt or even incompetent. When an airline pilot has a few drinks, goes to work, later gets discovered and canned for it, has the airline acted improperly?

If said airline then took steps to further ensure such a thing doesn't happen again, I'd say they did exactly what a reasonable person would do.
 
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