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Thread: Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

  1. #121
    Educator TheBook's Avatar
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    Re: Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    a real winning slogan---vote for obama, bush was worse

    LOL!

    meanwhile, on substance:

    Obama signs Patriot Act extensions - Washington Times
    If you'd read my post, you'd see I was only making the point that Bush was actually quite Liberal in many areas, not conservative. I never even mentioned Obama.

    I'm tired of the mindset of "if you dislike one candidate, you must love the other" and vice-versa.
    “The more you know, the harder it is to take decisive action. Once you become informed, you start seeing complexities and shades of gray. You realize that nothing is as clear and simple as it first appears. Ultimately, knowledge is paralyzing.” - Bill Watterson
    Who Is Chicago Ted?

  2. #122
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    Re: Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Can you post a link to an expert saying that?[/COLOR]

    How about Paul Krugman? Will he do?

    While the recession has at least bottomed out and appears technically to have ended, the recovery, by historic standards, has been anemic. Within two years of the start of every one of the three previous recessions, GDP had rebounded significantly—to 4 percentage points above where it was when the downturn began. But 31 months after the start of the current recession, GDP was still below its starting point. The employment situation is even worse. In the nasty recession of 1981-82, the economy had regained the jobs it lost within just 26 months. This time around, we still have 5 percent fewer jobs than at the recession's start in December 2007.

    What bothers the public, plain and simple, is that the steps that were taken to mitigate the recession—which involved greater government involvement, including ownership of the largest auto and insurance companies, and vastly more federal spending—have not worked.

    Worse, the public believes federal action was especially unhelpful to the mass of Americans. Only 27 percent of respondents to a Pew Research Center/National Journal survey in July agreed that "government economic policies have helped [the] middle class." A poll in June by Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research for Democracy Corps, a Democratic organization, asked American adults to choose between two statements:

    1: President Obama's economic policies helped avert an even worse crisis and are laying the foundation for our eventual recovery.

    or

    2 : President Obama's economic policies have run up a record federal deficit while failing to end the recession or slow job losses.

    By 49 percent to 44 percent, respondents chose Statement No. 2, and for those who identified themselves as independents, the margin was 52-38. Among independents, the results for backing a statement "strongly" were 42 percent for No. 2 and just 22 percent for No. 1.

    Some politicians and economists, notably Paul Krugman of Princeton and the New York Timesop-ed page, have argued that the persistent sluggishness of the economy is the result of not doing enough. Again, the public disagrees. As Jodie Allen of Pew wrote about her organization's study: "Far from demanding that the government reinforce its efforts so as to help neglected middle and lower-income groups, a majority of the public views cutting the federal budget deficit as more important than stimulating the economy." In June 2009, Pew found that, by 48 percent to 46 percent, Americans favored "spending more to help [the] recovery" over "reducing the budget deficit." But in July 2010, deficit-cutting was favored over spending by an 11-point margin, 51-40.

    The Failure of the Liberal Economic Experiment? - WSJ.com
    Now admittedly Krugman thinks that Obama should have spent more, however, if you read the entire piece, you get the distinct conclusion that Obama has failed at turning this economy around by just about everyone who isn't a complete Obama drone.

    j-mac
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  3. #123
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    Re: Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post

    I won't, didn't the first time, and many Americans that did vote for him won't be there this time around....

    The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Monday shows ...

    j-mac
    It's interesting that you rely on a JAR (Rasmussen, no less) to gauge the presidents chances of receiving votes in 19 months.

    Are you are aware that according to Gallup, Obama's JAR is 46% and at this same point in Reagan's first term, his JAR was even lower at 41%? What did Reagan's 41% job approval rating, in April of 1983, indicate would happen 19 months later?

  4. #124
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    Re: Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Doubtful, considering that I and many other liberals disapprove of many things he has done and yet we will still vote for him. Disapproval is not the same thing as "not voting" - many liberals who disapprove of Obama will make that clear.



    He's right where Bush was when he was getting ready to be re-elected.

    Obama Tests Well at Start of Reelection Run | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press
    I think it all depends on who the reps put up against him....And if the American people are actually dumb enough to buy his lies one more time.

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I think it all depends on who the reps put up against him....And if the American people are actually dumb enough to buy his lies one more time.

    j-mac
    It always comes down to being "dumb" for you and some others - that pretty much undermines any argument you make considering your inability to respect people who disagree with you.

  6. #126
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    Re: Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    Two points:

    1. Having family/friends in the military doesn't make your opinion suddenly more valid. One of the main reasons I didn't support Bush was because he risked the lives of my loved ones for seemingly no reason.

    2. Libya and Iraq are vastly different in terms of scale and level of involvement.



    Are you trying to make the argument that Bush was for smaller government? The guy who created a massive deficit, started 2 wars and implemented the Patriot Act, arguably one the greatest breaches of privacy in the history of the U.S.? Bush may have been socially conservative on some issues, but on most others (with the exception of his laissez-faire stance on business and tax cuts) he was everything bad about the Liberal position (essentially a Tax and Spend Liberal without the Tax part.)
    First of all having family in Iraq indeed doesn't make me an expert but it does give me some insight into how members of the military felt about their mission and about what was going on in the country. One of them was stationed right in Saddam's main palace in military intelligence and had access to a lot of confidential information that he shared with me. Whether or not you supported the war or not at this point is irrelevant. My family members say we did the right thing but that was their opinion. We are in Iraq and to continue this argument is futile.

    Second, Bush's economic policy was pro growth and pro business which is the exact opposite of Obama's and although Bush drove up the debt he didn't do it alone. He had a lot of help from Congress and that was under the control of Democrats since January 2007. Bush couldn't spend a dime without approval from Congress and since January 2007 to the present over 5 trillion has been added to the debt. Bush IMO beat the alternative of Gore and Kerry and anyon running against Obama will beat that alternative IMO. What most people ignore is that the GDP grew 4.5 trillion dollars in Bush's 8 years and some of that debt was attributed to 9/11 which according to the General Accounting Office cost over a trillion dollars.

    Now we can continue to relive the Bush years but for what purpose. Obama is the issue and as has been stated it is amazing to me how little celebration there is here on his announcment yet more and more want to continue to demonize Bush. Let's focus on the Obama record and that is all that matters, not the rhetoric.

  7. #127
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    Re: Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post

    The numbers you showed are an increase from the previous measuring cycle are they not?


    j-mac
    They are not. The number of those no longer in the work force fell by 11,000 in March.

  8. #128
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    Re: Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    with you, it's never worth it, because you seem to live in an alternate universe. the one where you make sense.
    You mean the actual universe that has economic results or the one you live in where rhetoric is all that matters?

  9. #129
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    Re: Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Then don't vote for him...
    I didn't and won't, you see I read his resume the first time and knew what he would do. I haven't been disappointed in my vote. The nanny state is alive and broke under Obama.

  10. #130
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    Re: Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

    There is absolutely no way i would vote for Obama... the Liberal streak in this country has lasted long enough, we needed it to Un-conservatize the government socially by liberating gays and other discrimination. But now it's time to be economically conservative and go back to capitalism to save this countries future.

    Not even going to mention the need for better Military and Foreign leadership.

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