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Thread: Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

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    Re: Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    None of that discounts that more people still blame Bush for the economy than Obama.
    You know Education is a terrible thing to waste. I suppose when all but one channel of news, network, or cable is leaning to the left, and carrying the water for Obama then that is what you get...No one said we were a nation of geniuses.

    Not too mention, despite your attempts to distort the results of that poll, it was a poll of "likely voters" and it was put out by Rasmussen, whose polls tend to lean towards Republicans more than most other polls.
    Yep, and you cherry picked a tiny part of it to make your incredibly disingenuous talking point pap. I also take note that you are now failing to address what I pointed out about that, and instead are resorting to the usual Allensky type rhetorical garbage....When you get something new, or interesting come on back.


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    Re: Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The difference, and it is huge, is that the public sector can be controlled while it is far more difficult to control governments. Let them get out of hand, as is the case in most democracies which have big governments, and the results are quite predictable. I see no areas of the private sector which puts the country at risk unless they get involved with the government. Which specific private sector companies do you feel can't be trusted?
    In general, I think every member of the private sector can damage the economy and citizens if left unchecked simply because more power and greed leads to irresponsible business practices. In other words, every institution operated by imperfect human beings needs to be checked including government and business.

    As far as specific institutions? Banks, insurance companies, any corporation who avoids paying taxes, etc. I mean, the current economic crisis was caused in huge part by banks handing out loans to people who couldn't afford them. The fact that several presidents continued to deregulate the banking industry shows that not enough regulation by government leads to dangerous practices.

    There are already a great many laws controlling the private sector and all have to eventually have support of the public to continue doing business. The caveat is that they are at arms length from any government.

    The Keynesian economic philosophy towards public spending has been debunked so often that we need not go over it here. In theory, like many economic theories, it works best on paper but politicians needing to satisfy an electorate demanding more public programs and spending will eventually ignore these theories, or install only part of them. In the end we can only spend what we have, and no more.
    Sure, there are certainly many laws controlling the private sector and yet they clearly do not protect against irresponsible practices. In the words of Krugman, "Regulation didn't keep up with the system." But I would also add that it's less that the policymakers didn't keep up, it's that they didn't care.

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    Re: Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    As far as specific institutions? Banks, insurance companies, any corporation who avoids paying taxes, etc. I mean, the current economic crisis was caused in huge part by banks handing out loans to people who couldn't afford them. The fact that several presidents continued to deregulate the banking industry shows that not enough regulation by government leads to dangerous practices.
    Now what in the world could have led to that happening?

    oh yeah....Community Reinvestment Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Thanks libs.


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    Re: Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Now what in the world could have led to that happening?

    oh yeah....Community Reinvestment Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Thanks libs.


    j-mac
    There were actually many acts of deregulation in the government by both parties. It's wrongheaded to blame it all on a single policy, especially one like the Community Reinvestment Act which was passed in 1977. If you were going to blame liberals, you could have a least picked something more recent like Clinton's Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act, which was passed in 1999.

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    Re: Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    In general, I think every member of the private sector can damage the economy and citizens if left unchecked simply because more power and greed leads to irresponsible business practices. In other words, every institution operated by imperfect human beings needs to be checked including government and business.
    Then you might say which businesses you think are suspect. I know that ALL governments are suspect because we know what power can do to a person, be it a crosswalk guard or an elected President. But if you know any company that is corrupt or acting outside the law why not say who it is?

    As far as specific institutions? Banks, insurance companies, any corporation who avoids paying taxes, etc. I mean, the current economic crisis was caused in huge part by banks handing out loans to people who couldn't afford them. The fact that several presidents continued to deregulate the banking industry shows that not enough regulation by government leads to dangerous practices.
    Yes, GE would fall into that category but, as we know, they are involved with the government in an obvious way. So were the banking institutions, often much against their will. Banks were forced by ACORN, with Barrack Obama playing a key role, in forcing banks to lend money to people who couldn't afford the loan. This is what led to the collapse of the banking and housing industry and Obama was a large part of that. City Bank was his largest victim.

    Sure, there are certainly many laws controlling the private sector and yet they clearly do not protect against irresponsible practices. In the words of Krugman, "Regulation didn't keep up with the system." But I would also add that it's less that the policymakers didn't keep up, it's that they didn't care.
    Banks were doing fine for decades before the politicians became involved and forced them to make unrealistic loans. The same is true with the setting up of Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac and the natural corruption that followed. And following all of this it is amazing to me that citizens will still allow governments to ignore budgets and expenses but instead insist on giving them more. It makes no sense whatsoever.

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    Re: Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    There were actually many acts of deregulation in the government by both parties. It's wrongheaded to blame it all on a single policy, especially one like the Community Reinvestment Act which was passed in 1977. If you were going to blame liberals, you could have a least picked something more recent like Clinton's Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act, which was passed in 1999.
    Actually there are more recent events that point to dereliction with an interesting video here.

    Obama Sued Citibank Under CRA to Force it to Make Bad Loans – UPDATED « The IUSB Vision Weblog

    and more related history with the original "good idea" here.

    http://www.clearinghouse.net/detail.php?id=10112

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    Re: Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

    Latest polls don't show a lot of positives for Obama as the American people keep waking up

    Obama Approval Index History - Rasmussen Reports™

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    Re: Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Latest polls don't show a lot of positives for Obama as the American people keep waking up

    Obama Approval Index History - Rasmussen Reports™
    I see 55% disapprove, but what is going on in the minds of those other 45%? Do they just vote along party lines without looking at the record?

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    Re: Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post

    Then you might say which businesses you think are suspect. I know that ALL governments are suspect because we know what power can do to a person, be it a crosswalk guard or an elected President. But if you know any company that is corrupt or acting outside the law why not say who it is?
    Exactly, I know that ALL institutions are suspect because we know what power can do to a person. Government, religion, business, the PTA board, etc. They all have the power to overreach and cause damage - which is why checks and balances need to be in place.

    I actually never said anything about businesses who act outside the law - I talked about businesses who behave irresponsibly (it turns out that in many cases, the law enables them to behave irresponsibly). Examples include anybody who contributed to the subprime mortgage crisis: Morgan Stanley, Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, Countrywide Financial (accused of fraud before acquired by Bank of America), Bank of America, Citibank, etc.

    If you want examples of companies that, as you say, have been "corrupt or acted outside of the law", all you have to do is do a Google search...

    Yes, GE would fall into that category but, as we know, they are involved with the government in an obvious way. So were the banking institutions, often much against their will. Banks were forced by ACORN, with Barrack Obama playing a key role, in forcing banks to lend money to people who couldn't afford the loan. This is what led to the collapse of the banking and housing industry and Obama was a large part of that. City Bank was his largest victim.
    Banks weren't forced by the government to be greedy and give out risky loans to poor people and undocumented immigrants. The main role the government played is by letting banks get away with their irresponsible practices.

    Banks were doing fine for decades before the politicians became involved and forced them to make unrealistic loans. The same is true with the setting up of Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac and the natural corruption that followed. And following all of this it is amazing to me that citizens will still allow governments to ignore budgets and expenses but instead insist on giving them more. It makes no sense whatsoever.
    Again with the "force" nonsense. Many citizens wanted to buy homes and banks wanted to make money - both groups were greedy. The government should have been there to balance the greed and lack of responsibility, but it wasn't. "Force" is a ridiculous thing to claim. Banks are known for taking risks, particularly investment banks; the risks went too far this time.

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    Re: Obama announces his Candidacy for 2012.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I see 55% disapprove, but what is going on in the minds of those other 45%? Do they just vote along party lines without looking at the record?
    You have seen examples of the other 45% in this forum, brainwashed and dependent on the govt. thus Obama

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