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Opponents start push to repeal Ohio union law

Jetboogieman said:
Your answer makes no sense.

You say the state workers should all be on a level playing field.

Who's going to make them all do it.

You're running.
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No I said the states should adopt the feds program. It is you trying to make it into something else
 
ptif219 said:
No I said the states should adopt the feds program. It is you trying to make it into something else
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You mean you don't believe in the 10th Amendment? You know,states rights, and all that. But I thought you said you were a Conservative. Is that only Conservative by convenience? :mrgreen:

Just messing with you a little, but seriously, what if the states don't want to adopt the Federal program? What if the majority of Wisconsinites want public sector unions as they are? That seems to be what the recall there is all about. And what if Ohioans want a referendum on the Ohio law, which can't go into effect for 90 days, by which time, it will be forced to a referendum vote in November? What if what the people want is not the same thing as what their governments are trying to force down their throats? Would you agree to Federal intervention, or would you let the voters of the states make their own decisions?
 
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danarhea said:
In Wisconsin they have recalls, and in Ohio they have referendums. In both cases, the result is a poison pill for the Republican party, which is going to suffer for it's slap in the face of the will of the American people.
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Are you referring to the will of the American people expressed in 2010, or the will expressed when people were stupid enough to vote for Obama in 2008?

In both Wisconsin and Ohio the politicians were enacting the will of the people of those states, so isn't the face slapping coming from the union thugs who are demanding special privileges over and above what the common American gets?

The answer is "yes". You will not give that response.
 
danarhea said:
At the national level, the GOP is making a pretense of trying to balance the budget, but their attempt to bust the CWA, by (get this) passing a law in the House which says anyone that doesn't vote in a union election is actually voting NO (George Orwell anybody?), created a backlash among the majority of Americans who support unions.
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1) The majority of Americans, something 86% of them, are not in unions, hence your assetion that the majority of American support unions is past the edge of absurd.

2) The person that does not vote yes is not voting yes. Clearly that had to be explained to you because you seem to believe that if a minority of union members, less than 50% vote yes, then "yes" is the outcome. Generally speaking, if the vote is regarding the imposition of a union on a workplace, and the majority do not vote "yes", then the union should not be allowed to force it's presence into the shop.
 
Temporal said:
Dan, what would be your solution to the current union issue?
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Recognize that the state laws cannot supercede the Constitution and thereby the First Amendment's guarantee of freedom of association protects workers from compulsory union membership. Also recognize that the state should never be in the position of collecting dues for any club memberships, including union dues, and that if unions wish to collect dues it has to get it's VOLUNTARY members to either write them a check or allow, VOLUNTARILY, a debit arrangement with the member's private bank account.

Voluntary association, that's how Freedom of Association works in the US.

If the unions cannot hold their membership by voluntary enrollment, too bad for them.
 
ptif219 said:
No I said the states should adopt the feds program. It is you trying to make it into something else
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So the states should all adopt a federal way of doing things.

Who's going to make them do it?
 
danarhea said:
You mean you don't believe in the 10th Amendment? You know,states rights, and all that. But I thought you said you were a Conservative. Is that only Conservative by convenience? :mrgreen:

Just messing with you a little, but seriously, what if the states don't want to adopt the Federal program? What if the majority of Wisconsinites want public sector unions as they are? That seems to be what the recall there is all about. And what if Ohioans want a referendum on the Ohio law, which can't go into effect for 90 days, by which time, it will be forced to a referendum vote in November? What if what the people want is not the same thing as what their governments are trying to force down their throats? Would you agree to Federal intervention, or would you let the voters of the states make their own decisions?
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What if? So you have nothing. I gave a solution but I know states will not do it because the unions have to much money
 
Badmutha said:
God Bless Scott Walker, John Kaisch, Rick Snyder, and Chris Christie.........

.....if Danarhea and the rest of the Left are pissed.......you know they are doing an outstanding job!
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.......its going to be so funny watching all these recall efforts go down in flames.
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And if they don't go down in flames?
 
Jetboogieman said:
It's time for another Jetboogieman rant.

So we're on this merry go round.

Republicans going after unions, which hey, I can sort of understand, but that's if everyone has to sacrifice. Unions aren't being totally dismantled, and while I stand by them, unfortunately there is a pretty good point to the fact that why should state employees get bargaining rights when Federal employees don't. A very difficult point to counter.

And then we go on the protest merry go round, the same ones from 2 years ago.

Democrats are calling Bush Hitler, they're terrible people!

Tea partiers are calling Obama Hitler, they're terrible people!

Unionists are calling Rick Scott Hitler, they're terrible people!

Hypocrisy strikes again in American politics, as it usually does. Thing is, it's often so blatant, transparent and obvious that you literally have to choose to ignore it.

But it's cool.

But the real issue I'm seeing here, is the amount of time and energy spent demonizing the other side, from Unions, to Tea Partiers, to democrats to republicans...

I mean honestly, why even bother being a country anymore? If you want to know why you're in the predicament you're in, I suggest you look away from Republicans, Democrats and Jersey Shore and look in the mirror. Each of you is responsible for your own countries destiny, and most Americans don't take part usually, we're all keeners here, but the reality is most Americans are to busy working for their next paycheque, going to the mall and reading about Brangelina to care about any of this ****.

You don't look like a country thats ready to sacrifice for the good of the country, you're not standing up and saying "Ok, we will with less for a few years to pay down the debt". Look I understand this point is pretty moot when you can't trust the politicians to implement a long term fiscal policy that will pay it down, but in the end, you can't have it all. You're going to have to make hard choices, you're going to have to suffer as a people for awhile, and you don't seem ready, you don't wanna give up what you have, even for a second.

Is that the America that won WW2, that accepted conscription, that said "we will go without, we'll take rations" to reach an ultimate goal in a world that was not as comfortable as it was today.

Again this is a rant, filled with generalities and hasty conclusions and I fully admit that, but somewhere in there is a point. And I think a pretty good one.

Americans are always pretty eager to find blame, but are pretty short coming when it comes to solutions.

There are very, very few times when there's a complete right and wrong answer, and those times usually always involve body counts.

There's a solution to your woes, and the answer lies within you, and somewhere in the middle.

That's the word, I stick to it.

Jetboogieman :peace:
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I am kind of tired of American politics and this back and forth. I am an independent, and I am tired of both parties and what they have done to America. Most of all, I hate the people who are far right republicans and far left democrats and can't admit their party is wrong, and when it's wrong. I hate people on these boards who try to twist every success as belonging their party, and every failure as belonging to the other party.

Bush was a good president, things just got bad because the democrats took the house and senate... Clinton was a good president only because the Conservatives had the majority of the house and senate..

... ohhh please.

GTFO
 
ptif219 said:
So you think 15% of the people will win?
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I am saying, wait and see what happens with the recalls.... If you think the republicans are right, but the majority of the people disagree, then the GOP has to work on it's message or learn to stop attacking unions. So far, the approach doesn't seem to be working.
 
SheWolf said:
I am saying, wait and see what happens with the recalls.... If you think the republicans are right, but the majority of the people disagree, then the GOP has to work on it's message or learn to stop attacking unions. So far, the approach doesn't seem to be working.
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Unions are not being attacked. States are trying to balance budgets
 
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