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Thread: Stalemate in Libya Increasingly Viewed as Likely Outcome

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    Stalemate in Libya Increasingly Viewed as Likely Outcome

    Such a deadlock perhaps backed by a formal cease-fire agreement could help ensure the safety of Libyan civilians caught in the crossfire between the warring sides. But it could also dramatically expand the financial and military commitments by the United States and allied countries that have intervened in the six-week-old conflict, according to U.S. officials familiar with planning for the Libyan operation.
    Stalemate in Libya increasingly viewed as a likely outcome - The Washington Post

    Oh good. Another ongoing commitment in something that is none of our business. It's only money. Only our money. To help al Quaida establish a new training ground.

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    Re: Stalemate in Libya Increasingly Viewed as Likely Outcome

    They should just divvy up between East and West and let us leave. This isn't going anywhere. Gaddaffi won't be defeated without the West actively involved in taking him out.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Stalemate in Libya Increasingly Viewed as Likely Outcome

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    They should just divvy up between East and West and let us leave. This isn't going anywhere. Gaddaffi won't be defeated without the West actively involved in taking him out.

    I agree it was such a bad move goin in there

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    Re: Stalemate in Libya Increasingly Viewed as Likely Outcome

    I'm pretty sure he DOESN'T know what he's doing, Prof. It is becoming more clear every day. And it was already crystal clear the first day when he started crowning Communist czars.

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    Re: Stalemate in Libya Increasingly Viewed as Likely Outcome

    I do think Barack is confused about what he is doing, but honestly I think anyone in his position would face the same dilemmas. I have trouble just putting myself in his shoes at this point, thinking about how I would go about it if I were President.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Stalemate in Libya Increasingly Viewed as Likely Outcome

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I do think Barack is confused about what he is doing, but honestly I think anyone in his position would face the same dilemmas. I have trouble just putting myself in his shoes at this point, thinking about how I would go about it if I were President.
    With all of his military advisors, ambassadors, diplomats, the CIA, etc., etc., he can damn well figure out what's in the best interests of the United States. Problem is he has politics on his mind, in my opinion.

    I say that because I think they all do. Except George Bush in Iraq and Afghanistan. Because of what had happened in the United States, I honestly believe he thought he was acting in the best interests of the United States. Obama? Not so much. Not so much at all.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Stalemate in Libya Increasingly Viewed as Likely Outcome

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I do think Barack is confused about what he is doing, but honestly I think anyone in his position would face the same dilemmas. I have trouble just putting myself in his shoes at this point, thinking about how I would go about it if I were President.
    I agree with you this one was tough. Except there were very clear considerations. We don't use Libya's light sweet oil. This is an issue for France especially but much of Europe also. We are spread thin and don't need anymore enemies in the Middle East. The mainstream media, most especially CNN in my view, made this one look attractive because they made it a romantic and appealing rescue mission.

    Basing this action on humanitarian goals was ridiculous and it set a precident we could never live up to IF anyone believed it was true. No one does. Not even the man who said it.

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    Re: Stalemate in Libya Increasingly Viewed as Likely Outcome

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    With all of his military advisors, ambassadors, diplomats, the CIA, etc., etc., he can damn well figure out what's in the best interests of the United States. Problem is he has politics on his mind, in my opinion.

    I say that because I think they all do. Except George Bush in Iraq and Afghanistan. Because of what had happened in the United States, I honestly believe he thought he was acting in the best interests of the United States. Obama? Not so much. Not so much at all.
    Maggie D, I'd like to like your post but somehow I'm not getting the link. Obama has a world of expertise at his disposal. Doesn't seem to want to use it.

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    Re: Stalemate in Libya Increasingly Viewed as Likely Outcome

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshabar View Post
    I agree with you this one was tough. Except there were very clear considerations. We don't use Libya's light sweet oil. This is an issue for France especially but much of Europe also. We are spread thin and don't need anymore enemies in the Middle East. The mainstream media, most especially CNN in my view, made this one look attractive because they made it a romantic and appealing rescue mission.

    Basing this action on humanitarian goals was ridiculous and it set a precident we could never live up to IF anyone believed it was true. No one does. Not even the man who said it.
    I think it is ridiculous from a purely logical/realist/material interest point of view, but people around the world (including many Americans, and we as Americans often naturally find ourselves identifying with those who struggle for freedom) were clamoring for the West to do something, plus there were all the reports out of Libya about how the rebels would be crushed if a no-fly-zone was not implemented, the rebels themselves were begging for help, etc. He could have done nothing and gotten blasted for it. He did something and the situation still sucks, it was just tough. So in conclusion I don't think his performance and rhetoric are really up to par on this one, but at the same time I fail to see how it could have been done any other way.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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