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Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

His actions were poorly considered and idiotic, but in comparison to the blowback it received, I cannot reach the conclusion that I would spend much of the time denouncing the pastor rather than the murderers. It was a greatly disproportionate response, and as such, people should mostly focus on denouncing the murderers than acting as if the pastor was truly pulling strings. Getting pulled into the debate about burning the Koran grossly reduces the actual tragedy of this event, which is that people were unjustly murdered in supposed retaliation-who had absolutely nothing to do with it. The level of apologetic behavior that is out there surrounding this is disgusting.
 
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ManofthPeephole said:
So you want people to pay for the irrational actions of others?
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You mean like 12 people paying for the irrational action of burning a Koran when you know that it could inspire violence.
 
Mikeyy said:
Really? Who is saying it? Even FOX news is condemning Jones.
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Condemning his actions and blaming him are two different things. We all condemned him, in the media and elsewhere before he even did it. Just like we condemn the Felps family.
Is Fox suggesting he somehow be punished for his actions?
There are people here who want action to be taken to punish Jones for exercising his rights. That makes them no better than those who used it as an excuse to kill.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Just found it funny that's all. Telling people to watch something and not watch it at the same time.
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Oh, ok. :) Yeah I was writting it and started thinking that it IS so horrible that I needed to put a warning on there. I saw it a month or so ago and it was a horrible experience just hearing and seeing it.
 
The Giant Noodle said:
Oh, ok. :) Yeah I was writting it and started thinking that it IS so horrible that I needed to put a warning on there. I saw it a month or so ago and it was a horrible experience just hearing and seeing it.
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Well it got blocked by my parents' porn filter lol.
 
Fiddytree said:
His actions were poorly considered and idiotic, but in comparison to the blowback it received, I cannot reach the conclusion that I would spend much of the time denouncing the pastor rather than the murderers. It was a greatly disproportionate response, and as such, people should mostly focus on denouncing the murderers than acting as if the pastor was truly pulling strings.
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I think most people are focusing on the pastor in this thread because he is the only people refuse to attribute any amount of responsibility to. I don't think there's any question that the actual murderers hold the majority of the responsibility...since they actually killed people.
 
theplaydrive said:
You mean like 12 people paying for the irrational action of burning a Koran when you know that it could inspire violence.
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That pastor didnt slice off a humans head. People are responsible for their OWN ACTIONS! If someone here calls me a jerk am I justified going to my neighbor and cutting of his god damn HEAD!?!?
 
The pastor has the right to do it America... end of story.

You can hate him for it, blame him for it, say that it was in bad taste, or even protest him for it, but you can't arrest or press charges against this man for anything whatsoever, and you SHOULDNT be able to.

What the Islam people did was absolutely disgusting and this make's their voice worth absolutely nothing on a global scale.
 
The Giant Noodle said:
That pastor didnt slice off a humans head. People are responsible for their OWN ACTIONS! If someone here calls me a jerk am I justified going to my neighbor and cutting of his god damn HEAD!?!?
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Nonetheless, I believe he has a part in the cause of this entire situation. He should acknowledge his part in the cause and others should to.
 
celticwar17 said:
The pastor has the right to do it America... end of story.

You can hate him for it, blame him for it, say that it was in bad taste, or even protest him for it, but you can't arrest or press charges against this man for anything whatsoever, and you SHOULDNT be able to.

What the Islam people did was absolutely disgusting and this make's their voice worth absolutely nothing on a global scale.
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No one has question his right; we have questioned his stupidity and responsibility.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Reverend Jones had every right, under the first Amendment, to burn the Koran.
[...]
You can yell "fire" in the crowded theater, but you're responsible for the riot that ensues.
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Your argument is incoherent. Yelling fire in a crowded room is a textbook example of an act of speech that is not protected by the first amendment. So if you are comparing the two you are saying that this was not protected speech.
 
Mikeyy said:
I am pointing out that people like General Patraeus have condemned Jones. Why? Does the genearl not believe in his rights? Ofcourse not. The General lives in reality. He understands he has people to protect and a situation he is trying to control. Most people get that Jones is a pubixity seeker who doesn't care what sort of violence he stirs up. You like the rest of us should condemn his ignorance. It doesn't mean you are denying him his free speech.
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I do condemn him, just like I condemn flag burners, and the Felps family for their sick protests. If people go out and kill gays should the Felps be prosecuted for it somehow, or just condemned for their protests?
 
My personal position: Jones deserves a portion of the responsibility and the blame for what happened. But I am completely against the government limiting free speech and doing anything about this.
 
theplaydrive said:
No one has question his right; we have questioned his stupidity and responsibility.
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you aren't exactly right-some have said he is as responsible for the deaths as the towelorists or that he should be sued
 
theplaydrive said:
No one has question his right; we have questioned his stupidity and responsibility.
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So he is stupid! i agree, but so what?

Like i said before you can think whatever you want about the guy, but you can't press charges or arrest him whatsoever, and you shouldn't be able to.
 
TurtleDude said:
you aren't exactly right-some have said he is as responsible for the deaths as the towelorists or that he should be sued
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Oh - I missed those arguments. I think he has a part in the cause of it all...but it's not big enough for jail or anything. I guess people could sue him if they wanted to, but they'd probably lose.
 
celticwar17 said:
So he is stupid! i agree, but so what?

Like i said before you can think whatever you want about the guy, but you can't press charges or arrest him whatsoever, and you shouldn't be able to.
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I agree with that - I don't he should be arrested, etc.. I just have a problem with his arrogant attitude and some people's claims that he doesn't even share a part in the cause of this situation.
 
Dittohead not! said:
No, of course killing people because someone else burned your book is the act of irrational people. When those people are known to be irrational, when it is predictable that they will go on a killing spree as a result of burning a book, then doing so is highly irresponsible. That's what Reverend Nutter did that was wrong.



I'm not calling for the use of government force. It is not up to the government to force someone to take responsibility for the irresponsible exercise of basic rights, and most definitely not up to them to take rights away because of irresponsibility. That is a function of the courts and the individuals who were harmed as a result of said actions.

Were someone to make a public statement that injured me in some way, i wouldn't be calling on the government to take their rights away. I'd exercise my rights to haul his butt into civil court and answer for his actions. That is exactly what should happen to Reverend Nutter, he should be hauled into civil court and made to answer for his actions.

He knew that burning he Koran would result in injury to others. He did it anyway. That is simply wrong.
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It is never wrong to exercise your rights. Other people are going to act irrationally and irresponsibly, but that cannot be proper argument for the restriction of our own exercise of rights. It's like saying that someone who burns the American Flag in demonstration should be liable if someone else gets pissed off and punches some other dude. But that's ridiculous. The pastor did nothing wrong, he was completely within his rights to do so. The people at fault are the one's who murdered. This isn't like shouting fire in a crowded theater. It is a reasonable response to panic in a situation where your life may be in danger, base animal response. When you shout fire and people panic and maybe people get hurt, they acted in an expected and reasonable manner by animal standards. But murdering people because they burn a book is not a reasonable response. You cannot blame the pastor for those actions. Even if one "should have known" because some of these people are less than animals. He's still not at fault, the other people had plenty of time to think and react to the situation, you're not throwing them into a panic setting.

And Civil Court is still government force. The court system is part of government and essentially you're saying there should be repercussions for this man exercising his right. Which I do think is an irrational response.
 
Mayor Snorkum said:
You need to sort out who's responsible for what.

Reverend Jones is responsible for releasing CO2 and water vapor, the products of combustion, and that's it.

The crazies in Afghanistan are responsible for killing a dozen people.

Nothing wrong with being upset about those deaths. It's silly and pointless to blame the Reverend Jones unless you can show video of Jones with the murder weapon in his hands.

This is America. People have the freedom to engage in pointless provocation. People do not have the freedom to restrain those acts unless the acts themselves present immediate harm to others. A crazy watching a YouTube video and deciding to rush out and kill people, that's secondary harm, not immediate, and those people made independent choices to murder.

Want to stop the crazies? Then Afganistan and the other hate filled islamic countries have to start executing their imam who preach hate and encourage actions that lead to the slaughter of innocents. The US cannot clean that up, and it should neither try to do that or try to erode American freedoms in the US to prevent further such atrocities. No one in America bears the blame for the event.
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AMEN, brother.
 
theplaydrive said:
You mean like 12 people paying for the irrational action of burning a Koran when you know that it could inspire violence.
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do you not recognize what party is the problem in this equation? Burning the Quran doesn't force people to murder anyone. They did so of their own volition and had a choice not to
 
Dittohead not! said:
If there were a bunch of crazies who would riot and start cutting off heads as a result of burning a US flag, then doing so would be highly irresponsible, don't you think?

There is a bunch of crazies who will riot and start cutting off heads when the Koran is burned. That is a fact that is well known, and was well known by Reverend Nutter and his followers. Burning the Koran, therefore, was highly irresponsible, and they should be called on it.
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Where does it end then? How much are we going to allow others to dictate what we are allowed to do in this country? We already have them dictating what cartoons are acceptable to them. Didn't also South Park have to pull one of their episodes because radical Islamics said so?
 
theplaydrive said:
Nonetheless, I believe he has a part in the cause of this entire situation. He should acknowledge his part in the cause and others should to.
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Yes, and MLK was responsible for a bunch of racists rioting, due to his actions...

Or how about the girls who dressed like a slut? Of course she's responsible when someone rapes her...
 
ManofthPeephole said:
Yes, and MLK was responsible for a bunch of racists rioting, due to his actions...

Or how about the girls who dressed like a slut? Of course she's responsible when someone rapes her...
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And here we are again. Remember the time I said that I distinguish criticism and unnecessary/reckless provocation.

There is a reason why I and others don't condemn academics and policymakers when they criticize Islam, but instead condemn ignorant fools who burn Korans/provoke murderers.
 
Barbbtx said:
The radical Muslims want to kill all infidels. We had the cartoons and now we have the burning of the koran. Maybe they are willing to use any excuse. What next?
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Nothing but the same excuses are next. People will continue to believe that the only reasons extremists do what they do is because of poverty, or politics, or some other disagreement unrelated to their religious beliefs (which they may be right, but only in SOME cases). The simple fact is that Islam is NOT a religion of peace. If you want a religion of peace then look at Jainism. There is no reasonable way to derive acts or violence and evil from the tenants of Jainism. However, within Islam violence can easily be interpreted as necessary. The same for Christianity but to a lesser extent.

As long as people continue to presume the truth of their ideology/holybook/leader rather than thinking for themselves then these types of scenarios will continue to play out time and time again.
 
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ManofthPeephole said:
Yes, and MLK was responsible for a bunch of racists rioting, due to his actions...

Or how about the girls who dressed like a slut? Of course she's responsible when someone rapes her...
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By the same logic, would those who say that Pastor Jones is blameless admit that liberals/media/hippies were not responsible for us losing in Vietnam? They were exercising their 1st Amendment rights, after all...
 
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