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Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

TurtleDude said:
and you would lose that suit and hopefully the judge would hit you with sanctions pursuant to civil rule 11.

if Christians killed people everytime the jihadist scum insulted the Christian faith or the west we would have a 100 million dead muslims
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You make a excellent point here, and your probably right and thank God we are not of the belief of living by the sword.
 
ManofthPeephole said:
It doesn't matter, people still reacted in some extreme ways to what he said. And according tho your above argument, that makes him culpable.
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Does matter. Check the word "intentional".
TurtleDude said:
I guess you didn't read what I have posted

I think that Pastor is a asshole and a bigot but he is not responsible for a bunch of jihadist scum sucking slugs killing people
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He is as responsible as a guy who shouts fire in a crowded theater. He intentionally caused the riot therefore should be tried as should the rioters. He also put American lives at risk in time of war after being told such actions would cause death. As I stated earlier the fact he may be a fool doesn't relieve him of responsibility.

OhIsee.Then said:
Occasionally one has the power to do something very bad and the ability to avoid unwanted repercussions; and be a pastor at the same time. Some people look for those opportunities. Others defend their freedom to do it. Others think they will go to heaven for supporting the pastor.

Note that those that died as a result were not of the pastors flock. What do you think the pastor wanted to happen? Who is the pastor really?
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Very interesting question.
 
Salty said:
Does matter. Check the word "intentional".

He is as responsible as a guy who shouts fire in a crowded theater. He intentionally caused the riot therefore should be tried as should the rioters. He also put American lives at risk in time of war after being told such actions would cause death. As I stated earlier the fact he may be a fool doesn't relieve him of responsibility.



Very interesting question.
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First off, yelling fire in a crowded theater requires immediate action, because if the fire is real, any deliberation could cost you your life. Such an existential threat doesn't exist in burning the Quran. Secondly, there is nothing about burning a Quran that forces people to riot or cause violence (no muslim in the US did any such thing). Secondly, he burnt the Quran to protest Islam and Sharia law. If you are going to hold such as the standard to causing "intentional" violence, and for filing charges, then all one needs to do to shut down speech, of anyone, is to threaten violence
 
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Salty said:
Does matter. Check the word "intentional".

He is as responsible as a guy who shouts fire in a crowded theater. He intentionally caused the riot therefore should be tried as should the rioters. He also put American lives at risk in time of war after being told such actions would cause death. As I stated earlier the fact he may be a fool doesn't relieve him of responsibility.



Very interesting question.
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that is moronic

first of all your analogy is cretinous . its like me shouting fire in a theater in cincinnati and a bunch of morons stampede in a theater in Yemen because their leader claimed someone in america shouted fire

secondly, it was not forseeable that towelterrorists in yeman would go beserk. it is foreseeable people would panic in a theater if someone yelled fire
 
Salty said:
Does matter. Check the word "intentional".

He is as responsible as a guy who shouts fire in a crowded theater. He intentionally caused the riot therefore should be tried as should the rioters. He also put American lives at risk in time of war after being told such actions would cause death. As I stated earlier the fact he may be a fool doesn't relieve him of responsibility.



Very interesting question.
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You have made the same points I did. It is amazing to me how many people want to give Jones a pass when it is clear that he knew he was going to cause nothing but trouble.

What he did and how he talks is less than Christian. I would like to know where he was educated. because it doesn't seem to have been with traditional Christian beliefs.
 
TurtleDude said:
secondly, it was not forseeable that towelterrorists in yeman would go beserk. it is foreseeable people would panic in a theater if someone yelled fire
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Wasn't forseeable? ****, they go berserk when the vending machine takes their quarter (metaphorically speaking of course). I saw it coming a mile away.

The thing is this -- he had the right to burn the Koran under the First Amendment, no doubt about it. Legal right and good idea are not the same thing, however. I'd be the last one to say everybody needs to go around being politically correct, but I don't think you have to act like an asshole. Especially when you purport to follow Jesus.
 
rocket88 said:
Wasn't forseeable? ****, they go berserk when the vending machine takes their quarter (metaphorically speaking of course). I saw it coming a mile away.

The thing is this -- he had the right to burn the Koran under the First Amendment, no doubt about it. Legal right and good idea are not the same thing, however. I'd be the last one to say everybody needs to go around being politically correct, but I don't think you have to act like an asshole. Especially when you purport to follow Jesus.
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1) i have not condoned his bigotry

2) I support the constitution- I have taken two oaths to defend it

3) The people who did the killing are scum and impalement would be the proper sentence

4) towelterrorists will kill with no provocation at all-and this has been proven thousands of times
 
The restrictions on speech are, in my opinion, for the most part unconstitutional. A religious leader should not have to give up his right of free speech when he is ordained.
 
ManofthPeephole said:
First off, yelling fire in a crowded theater requires immediate action, because if the fire is real, any deliberation could cost you your life. Such an existential threat doesn't exist in burning the Quran.
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It does when the burner is aware of the consequences.
Secondly, there is nothing about burning a Quran that forces people to riot or cause violence (no muslim in the US did any such thing).
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You are arguing with yourself, I think. thinking out loud maybe? I did not make those connections.
Secondly, he burnt the Quran to protest Islam and Sharia law.
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Just fyi: According to his video of the burning, he did it because he was convicting the Koran itself of crimes including rape and murder.
If you are going to hold such as the standard to causing "intentional" violence, and for filing charges, then all one needs to do to shut down speech, of anyone, is to threaten violence
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His is not a plain old free speech issue. There are extenuating circumstances. He is culpable. Whether our government chooses to take action or not is probably a matter of diplomacy. However he will not be the first criminal to "get away with it" due to politics.
TurtleDude said:
that is moronic

first of all your analogy is cretinous . its like me shouting fire in a theater in cincinnati and a bunch of morons stampede in a theater in Yemen because their leader claimed someone in america shouted fire
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No it is like you getting on national news at half time and shouting "There's a fire in Yemen!"
secondly, it was not forseeable that towelterrorists in yeman would go beserk. it is foreseeable people would panic in a theater if someone yelled fire
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Yes it was foreseeable as evidenced by General Petraeus foreseeing it.

Councilman said:
You have made the same points I did. It is amazing to me how many people want to give Jones a pass when it is clear that he knew he was going to cause nothing but trouble.

What he did and how he talks is less than Christian. I would like to know where he was educated. because it doesn't seem to have been with traditional Christian beliefs.
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My Internet connection goes down in the evening so it slowed my youtube video, but from the first half of his demonstration he was not quoting any scripture that I could tell.

ric27 said:
The restrictions on speech are, in my opinion, for the most part unconstitutional. A religious leader should not have to give up his right of free speech when he is ordained.
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If it wasn't for him being forewarned and us being in a war there, I would agree completely.
 
Salty said:
By the same token I hope many Christian leaders are speaking out against the rev here. He should imo be charged along with the rioters. That's what would happen if the world were still sane.
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On what charge? He did a perfectly legal act of free speech. Funny how some will defend the burning of the U.S. flag as free speech, but the burning of a book in protest is not??? He didn't kill anyone -- he burned a book. The onus is on those who killed people. As a Catholic, if someone burned a Bible, I would be very displeased about it, and I would condemn the action, however, I would not contemplate killing even the person involved, much less someone who had nothing to do with it. I am sure Church leaders would condemn anyone who did. The lengths to which some will defend radicals in the Islamic faith is sad. Frankly, Afghanistan would be better of had it remained Buddhist and the Muslims never came and conquered the region more than a thousand years ago...
 
Councilman said:
You have made the same points I did. It is amazing to me how many people want to give Jones a pass when it is clear that he knew he was going to cause nothing but trouble.

What he did and how he talks is less than Christian. I would like to know where he was educated. because it doesn't seem to have been with traditional Christian beliefs.
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I don't see people here defending his actions. They are dispicable. However, they are also protected by the basic laws and values of the United States, one that guarantees the freedom of speech for all of its citizens and legal residents. He didn't kill a soul, it was the extremists in Central Asia who did that...
 
Salty said:
It does when the burner is aware of the consequences.
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again, you can't hold people accountable for the irrational actions of others. If some guy says he's going to go on random shooting sprees everytime he sees an interracial couple, then you deal with the guy going on a shooting spree, not outlaw interracial couples

Salty said:
You are arguing with yourself, I think. thinking out loud maybe? I did not make those connections.
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Yes you did, when you compared it to yelling fire in a theater. The reason you can't yell fire in a theater is because people are forced to react, due to the circumstances

Salty said:
Just fyi: According to his video of the burning, he did it because he was convicting the Koran itself of crimes including rape and murder.
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and such would have no bearing on my point

Salty said:
His is not a plain old free speech issue.
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indeed it is

Salty said:
There are extenuating circumstances. He is culpable. Whether our government chooses to take action or not is probably a matter of diplomacy. However he will not be the first criminal to "get away with it" due to politics.
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lol, yes, just as much as civil rights activists were culpable in the violence leveled against them by the klan, and various other racists.
 
ludahai said:
On what charge? He did a perfectly legal act of free speech. Funny how some will defend the burning of the U.S. flag as free speech, but the burning of a book in protest is not??? He didn't kill anyone -- he burned a book. The onus is on those who killed people. As a Catholic, if someone burned a Bible, I would be very displeased about it, and I would condemn the action, however, I would not contemplate killing even the person involved, much less someone who had nothing to do with it. I am sure Church leaders would condemn anyone who did. The lengths to which some will defend radicals in the Islamic faith is sad. Frankly, Afghanistan would be better of had it remained Buddhist and the Muslims never came and conquered the region more than a thousand years ago...
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A case could be made that he intentionally endangered our Americans in the region in which we are engaged in a war and he was warned this would be the case.
 
ManofthPeephole said:
again, you can't hold people accountable for the irrational actions of others. If some guy says he's going to go on random shooting sprees everytime he sees an interracial couple, then you deal with the guy going on a shooting spree, not outlaw interracial couples



Yes you did, when you compared it to yelling fire in a theater. The reason you can't yell fire in a theater is because people are forced to react, due to the circumstances



and such would have no bearing on my point



indeed it is



lol, yes, just as much as civil rights activists were culpable in the violence leveled against them by the klan, and various other racists.
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Nice try trying to tie this to sentiment about race. E for effort.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Of course he had the right. That's irrelevant, though, as to whether he showed good judgment in exercising that right. He didn't.

The discussion is twofold. The insanity and barbarism of the Muslim extremists who committed the murders and the irresponsibility of Jones for exercising his rights in an irresponsible way. Both statements are accurate.
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Couldn't the same argument be made about the Ground Zero mosque? Rauf has a right to build it, but is he showing good judgment in exercising his right?
 
All the discussion is about rage, legality, fire in a theater, etc. Nothing about the pastor getting what he wanted or not. I think the pastor got what he wanted. I know what to think about peoples religious beliefs taking over their rational thought. I now care more about what his actions say about us, like the ones posting here.
 
OhIsee.Then said:
All the discussion is about rage, legality, fire in a theater, etc. Nothing about the pastor getting what he wanted or not. I think the pastor got what he wanted. I know what to think about peoples religious beliefs taking over their rational thought. I now care more about what his actions say about us, like the ones posting here.
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Really? I care more about 12 innocent people being brutally murdered. Burning the Koran just doesn't compare in importance to me.
 
TurtleDude said:
if Christians killed people everytime the jihadist scum insulted the Christian faith or the west we would have a 100 million dead muslims
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We know, or should, what makes people vulnerable to becoming zealots and terrorists. We know who they are. We know how they behave. But, once you’re judging the goodness of yourself by the standards of your enemy you will race them to the bottom. Christians know this, right?
 
X Factor said:
Really? I care more about 12 innocent people being brutally murdered. Burning the Koran just doesn't compare in importance to me.
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I care that a pastor would successfully set up a situation where we could rant with religious indignation comparing the burning of a koran to the murder of 12 people. The murder is important to me. Where it’s going is scary.
 
Terry Jones needs his old rusty ass handed to him on a rusty silver platter with rusty nails driven into his nasty ass just for kicks. This man is nasty and do not deserve air much less a tecna/Tetanus shot.

He pretty much does not deserve anything but death ( you know the kind of DEATH!!!!!! he brought to others with his mess! ) or hospitalization.
 
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