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Thread: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    [QUOTE=2K05GT;1059401088]
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post

    This is what I was thinking as I read the 80 pages of posts.

    The responsibility should be laid upon the people who committed the acts. Most here were assuming that the Muslims who were rioting and killing over the burning of a book half a world away had no control over their reactions, and thus could not be held accountable for them: they were demonstrating their belief that it was the West’s responsibility to make sure the Islamic world behaves in a civilized manner.

    I live in Washington DC and have many friends and neighbors that are Muslim; I asked them what they thought about the burning, they said that if they met Pastor Jones "they would cut his head off". I asked them about the actions taken by the people in Afghanistan and they applauded them... Now keep in mind that these are people that Work, Live and Pray in the USA. I told them that I would have an issue calling them Moderate Muslims because of their answers. They Said that the Education and culture of Islam is that you protect Islam with your life. I was a bit shocked, so I retreated to my den to study a little about the subject. I had to ponder my own belief system growing up as a catholic but find myself today a non religious person having studied Physics and math the past 30 years. I wondered who is God what does he mean to people? So I started to search the Bible, Quran and Torah to get my answers.

    Well after many nights of pouring through the religious text I find myself no closer to God than I was a week ago. So I called a college who is what I would consider a Well Educated non practicing Muslim Professor and asked him for some insight on this event and how moderate and extremist Muslims find themselves in agreement on this subject. His first comment was “do you have 20 years?” I don’t but he proceeded to tell me that Muslims are very devoted to the Political structure of Islam not to the religious aspect. Without the political structure the religion would not last because of the vast cultures that Islam is practiced from China, Indonesia, Middle East, Africa and Persia. It is the fastest growing religion in the world that spans every group, nationality and language.

    We make a natural mistake in our understanding of Islamic tradition, assuming that religion means the same for Muslims as it has meant for most other religious adherents ever since the industrial revolution, and for some societies, even before that; that is: a section of life reserved for certain matters, and separate from other sections of life. This is not the Islamic world view.

    Islam is a “total way of life.” It has provided guidance in every sphere of life, from individual cleanliness, rules of trade, to the structure and politics of the society. Islam can never be separated from social, political, or economic life, since religion provides moral guidance for every action that a person takes. The primary act of faith is to strive to implement God's will in both private and public life. Muslims see that they, themselves, as well as the world around them, must be in total submission to God and his Will. Moreover, they know that this concept of His rule must be established on earth in order to create a just society. Like Jews and Christians before them, Muslims have been called into a covenant relationship with God, making them a community of believers who must serve as an example to other nations by creating a Islamic moral social order. Throughout history, being a Muslim has meant not only belonging to a religious community of fellow believers but also living under the Islamic Law. For Islamic Law is believed to be an extension of God’s absolute sovereignty and God’s word written or sung is as sacred Gods own being.

    Asking Muslims themselves is certainly the best way to have a handle on what's going on, 2KO5GT, and they shared their opinions with you just as they do on many of their web sites. They are not too shy on explaining the situation, but the West often has difficulty understanding it. In fact you'll often see non Muslims describing Islam as a "Race".

    It seems that many people believe Islam, because they think of it as a religion, is just another form of Christianity, where you can opt in or out and you're pretty much left alone. You've described the religion as many others have, and these numbers would include all Muslims.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post

    Does anyone else around here smell sock?
    Smells more like a juvenile avoidance of the isses.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Grant,
    I am not an expert in religion, in fact I have very little knowledge since I have not practiced my own in quite some time, I do know that Islam is more of a political system than a religion. Some would also call Catholicism a political system, look at the Vatican, As city of its own, it’s own Leader, Laws and government.

    Others, What’s a “SOCK” besides the garment that you put on your foot..

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by 2K05GT View Post
    Grant,
    I am not an expert in religion, in fact I have very little knowledge since I have not practiced my own in quite some time, I do know that Islam is more of a political system than a religion. Some would also call Catholicism a political system, look at the Vatican, As city of its own, it’s own Leader, Laws and government.

    Others, What’s a “SOCK” besides the garment that you put on your foot..
    Nor am I an expert on religion, but I can see what Muslims are doing, read what they have to say, and can look at what happens in Muslim dominated countries.

    It really shouldn't be such a mystery if we genuinely want to learn more about what's going on.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    I'll tell you all...

    If the Crusades had succeeded, we wouldn't have to deal with this Islamic cluster****, we see today

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I'll tell you all...

    If the Crusades had succeeded, we wouldn't have to deal with this Islamic cluster****, we see today
    The goal of the crusaders was to take back Jerusalem from the non Christians, that and to find the Holy Grail.
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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The goal of the crusaders was to take back Jerusalem from the non Christians, that and to find the Holy Grail.
    Damn - I ordered *original recipe* and got the crispy crap

    Ok, back on topic

    What most people seem to forget, is that prior to the rise of Islam after 632AD, the Holy Land was predominantly Christian with some Jews. Egypt was Christian. Spain was Christian. The Balkans and Asia Minor was Christian. Muslims over-ran the Middle East and North Africa. They conquered most of Spain and were only stopped in Europe by Odo of Aquitaine at Toulouse in 721AD and finally by Charles Martel at Tours in 732AD. It was another 750 years before the Spanish and Portugese finally drove them out of the Iberian Peninsula. We celebrate 1492 as the year Columbus discovered the Americas. Spain also celebrates it as the year the Muslims were finally driven the hell out.

    Consequently, for whatever reasons there were for the Crusades, it was not an invasion by Christians of traditional Muslim lands. It was a recovery of what had been Christian lands and a counter campaign to the centuries long expansion of Islam. The last assault on Vienna, Austria by the Turks was in 1683. They were finally driven out of Hungary in 1699.

    Attempting to portray Muslims as peaceful, civilized people who were attacked by brutal, barbaric, European Christians. Its bull**** Muslims started it.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Damn - I ordered *original recipe* and got the crispy crap

    Ok, back on topic

    What most people seem to forget, is that prior to the rise of Islam after 632AD, the Holy Land was predominantly Christian with some Jews. Egypt was Christian. Spain was Christian. The Balkans and Asia Minor was Christian. Muslims over-ran the Middle East and North Africa. They conquered most of Spain and were only stopped in Europe by Odo of Aquitaine at Toulouse in 721AD and finally by Charles Martel at Tours in 732AD. It was another 750 years before the Spanish and Portugese finally drove them out of the Iberian Peninsula. We celebrate 1492 as the year Columbus discovered the Americas. Spain also celebrates it as the year the Muslims were finally driven the hell out.

    Consequently, for whatever reasons there were for the Crusades, it was not an invasion by Christians of traditional Muslim lands. It was a recovery of what had been Christian lands and a counter campaign to the centuries long expansion of Islam. The last assault on Vienna, Austria by the Turks was in 1683. They were finally driven out of Hungary in 1699.

    Attempting to portray Muslims as peaceful, civilized people who were attacked by brutal, barbaric, European Christians. Its bull**** Muslims started it.

    The Crusades


    In 1095 an assembly of churchmen called by Pope Urban II met at Clermont, France. Messengers from the Byzantine Emperor Alexius Comnenus had urged the pope to send help against the armies of Muslim Turks. On November 27 the pope addressed the assembly and asked the warriors of Europe to liberate the Holy Land from the Muslims. The response of the assembly was overwhelmingly favorable. Thus was launched the first and most successful of at least eight crusades against the Muslim caliphates of the Near East.

    "God wills it!"
    The Battle of Tours you cite is probably one of the most important in human history, as it led to the expulsion of the Muslims from Europe, then to the Crusades, which in turn led to the European exploration (since the Muslims weren't too anxious to have Europeans crossing their lands) and finally to the European discovery and exploration of the New World.
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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Theres an excellent book by Thomas Madden *The Concise History of the Crusades*

    I highly recommend it for reading to better educate oneself regarding the history of the middle east....

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Theres an excellent book by Thomas Madden *The Concise History of the Crusades*

    I highly recommend it for reading to better educate oneself regarding the history of the middle east....
    Or, you could just read my link. It would be quicker. But, by all means, if you want to read a whole book about it, go ahead.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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