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Thread: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    This is where so many hang up their brains. One side will argue that it's obviously a Muslim thing. The other side will counter and state that Muslims are successful in Indonesia and such. The proper question is "Why is the Middle East such a basket case?" But people don't want to actually think about the problem. You just hear slogans like "you can't bomb them into democracy, you can't throw the military at it, it's none of our business," and "they're not all terrorists." You just hear words like "terrorists, pedophile," and "evil." None of this addresses the effort and it doesn'thelp when our own politicians shy away from admitting that this is and has always been about the entire region. They keep it simple so that people can compartmentalize the effort amongst nice neat borders on a map. They pretend (some are just too stupid to know any better) that we have "three" separate wars going on. What they don't tell the American people from behind their microphones is that our diplomats in and out of military uniform are working throughout the MENA region, ever since 9/11, and have been addressing the very same social issues that all these "states" have.

    It's only in the West that such simpleton idiocracies are occurring. Our enemies talk about the Muslim people without addressing the nation states. The Nation of Islam has no borders. The organized religious movements and groups hold members that comes from all over the region. "Iraqi," "Kuwaiti," "Saudi," "Egyptian," "Libyan," etc. are labels that came after European colonialism, which are new labels in history. Even today they are secondary to the "Muslim peoples."

    The fact that Muslims far removed from the MENA region have played part in the "Global War on Terror" is evidence that the propaganda of the region has far reaching implications. The lost souls of the Bali bombing, London bombing, Major dickhead shooting, and Madrid bombing simply stem from personalized guilt and a natural drive to ensure a place in heaven by heeding the call of the jihad. Propaganda and the media's exposure has a way of igniting people's perspectives into unnecessary places. And don't get me started on the converted who feel that they have something to prove in order to belong to their new community.
    I tend to agree with the premise that much of the West does not fully understand Muslim culture and equates their acceptance and desire for some Western technology and material goods with "moderate" religious beliefs. The fact is, Western culture, civilization, society and political structure is incompatible with Islam. They don't come here to flee Islamic restraints and to become Westernized. They come here for economic opportunity and to take over via population increase. Too many people deny our war is a crusade instead of really making it one. Not Christianity v. Islam, but Western Civilization against Islam.

    And yes!....The GWOT is not about nation states. You must forget names like Iraq, Afghanistan, borders etc. Islamo-fascism is a security community.

    Terrorists are no more Iraqi, Afgan, Yemeni, Saudi, Libyan, etc, etc than I am. They are Islamo-fascists, period. Hadji for short.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    We are well aware of your opinion on the matter, but that's all it is. An opinion.
    Then perhaps you can offer an alternative opinion. Did he, for example, break the law?
    You asked for proof that law-abiding Moslems were being hounded in western countries. There it is. Of course they are not being murdered. That happened in Afghanistan, one of the basket cases of the modern world. Why would you even think of comparing the situations of the US and Afghanistan?
    These were protesters and they have every right to protest. There are protests in the democracies every day, all over the free world, and I've never heard it referred to as "hounding". If protesters were to go to their homes then I could see your point, but as it is you don't have one. If you want to see some real "hounding" perhaps I should post some Muslim protests. Are you familiar at all with their protests? The one against burning the Koran, for example? Or the protest over some cartoons?
    It's a shame you're not quite so strong in defending the right of free expression.
    What? Is that a typo? I'm all for free expression, which is what this debate is all about, and if it does not include bodily harm or the destruction of property.
    Please tell me what aspect of this debate would be banned in any country of the EU?
    That's not a problem!

    Austrian Woman Charged for Criticizing the Koran - World - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com

    BBC NEWS | Europe | Islam film Dutch MP to be charged

    Islam in Europe: Denmark: Boy charged for anti-Islamic posters

    It seems you side with these people here. Did you speak out as vehemently against them (just a small example btw) as strongly as you do against the Florida Pastor? I think not.

    Hate demo over cartoon | The Sun |News



    Have you not been reading this and other threads on the subject? There's a lot of disapproval for the unethical, irresponsible and hateful actions of the Rev out there. You're the person on DP most fullsome in your praise of his actions.
    Where did read you about my fulsome praise of his actions? You know that's untrue, but I've noticed that people who are most against free speech are open towards the telling of lies..
    What's it to you or me? You're not American and neither am I. You don't live in the US and neither do I. Why don't you express any hopes or wishes on behalf of your own country?
    I do actually, and have publicly complained about the cowardly way the Canadian government has behaved about the selective freedom of speech and I've written MP's saying so.. I'm hoping the law will change after the upcoming election.

    I care because what happens in the US effects everyone and perhaps moreso in Canada because they are our neighbors.. I now avoid Europe but its more difficult to avoid the States.
    Last edited by Grant; 04-09-11 at 11:43 PM.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant Noodle View Post
    Religion SUCKS! And especially the muslim religion. They are murders and barbarians.
    Ever hear of the Spanish Inquisition?

    Of Salam Mass.?

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Ever hear of the Spanish Inquisition?

    Of Salam Mass.?
    Ummm...yeah

    hazlnut - You might want to consider dates.

    Salem witch trials - 1692
    Spanish inquistion - pretty much gone after about 1690.
    Crusades - 1095-1291. Muslim armies conquered Christian Palestine and steadily encroached on the Eastern Roman Empire. After the battle of Manzikert in 1071, the Eastern Roman Emperor appealed for aid to the west, but the First Crusade wasn't preached until pilgrims were attacked.

    While the merits of the crusades can be debated back and forth, the point is, you don't find a history of Christian persecution in the last 300 years or more. With the exception of a few nutcases like Phelps, you won't find a Christian priest or preacher who will advocate conversion by the sword or execution for religious reasons.

    Nothing for 300+ years... I think you'll lose that comparison.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    [QUOTE=Grant;1059400794]

    It seems you side with these people here. Did you speak out as vehemently against them (just a small example btw) as strongly as you do against the Florida Pastor? I think not.
    This is what I was thinking as I read the 80 pages of posts.

    The responsibility should be laid upon the people who committed the acts. Most here were assuming that the Muslims who were rioting and killing over the burning of a book half a world away had no control over their reactions, and thus could not be held accountable for them: they were demonstrating their belief that it was the West’s responsibility to make sure the Islamic world behaves in a civilized manner.

    I live in Washington DC and have many friends and neighbors that are Muslim; I asked them what they thought about the burning, they said that if they met Pastor Jones "they would cut his head off". I asked them about the actions taken by the people in Afghanistan and they applauded them... Now keep in mind that these are people that Work, Live and Pray in the USA. I told them that I would have an issue calling them Moderate Muslims because of their answers. They Said that the Education and culture of Islam is that you protect Islam with your life. I was a bit shocked, so I retreated to my den to study a little about the subject. I had to ponder my own belief system growing up as a catholic but find myself today a non religious person having studied Physics and math the past 30 years. I wondered who is God what does he mean to people? So I started to search the Bible, Quran and Torah to get my answers.

    Well after many nights of pouring through the religious text I find myself no closer to God than I was a week ago. So I called a college who is what I would consider a Well Educated non practicing Muslim Professor and asked him for some insight on this event and how moderate and extremist Muslims find themselves in agreement on this subject. His first comment was “do you have 20 years?” I don’t but he proceeded to tell me that Muslims are very devoted to the Political structure of Islam not to the religious aspect. Without the political structure the religion would not last because of the vast cultures that Islam is practiced from China, Indonesia, Middle East, Africa and Persia. It is the fastest growing religion in the world that spans every group, nationality and language.

    We make a natural mistake in our understanding of Islamic tradition, assuming that religion means the same for Muslims as it has meant for most other religious adherents ever since the industrial revolution, and for some societies, even before that; that is: a section of life reserved for certain matters, and separate from other sections of life. This is not the Islamic world view.

    Islam is a “total way of life.” It has provided guidance in every sphere of life, from individual cleanliness, rules of trade, to the structure and politics of the society. Islam can never be separated from social, political, or economic life, since religion provides moral guidance for every action that a person takes. The primary act of faith is to strive to implement God's will in both private and public life. Muslims see that they, themselves, as well as the world around them, must be in total submission to God and his Will. Moreover, they know that this concept of His rule must be established on earth in order to create a just society. Like Jews and Christians before them, Muslims have been called into a covenant relationship with God, making them a community of believers who must serve as an example to other nations by creating a Islamic moral social order. Throughout history, being a Muslim has meant not only belonging to a religious community of fellow believers but also living under the Islamic Law. For Islamic Law is believed to be an extension of God’s absolute sovereignty and God’s word written or sung is as sacred Gods own being.
    Last edited by 2K05GT; 04-10-11 at 02:17 AM.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Ever hear of the Spanish Inquisition?

    Of Salam Mass.?
    Not sure what your version of the cusades is but History and facts show that the Crusades in the East were in every way defensive wars. They were a direct response to Muslim aggression--an attempt to turn back or defend against Muslim conquests of Christian and Jewish lands. These wars lasted 200 years. But it was not a "witch hunt" to kill Muslims is was a war fought over land, like every war before and after.

    I am not a big fan of wikipedia but there is some good info there "Crusades"

    Some more intersting books

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    [QUOTE=2K05GT;1059401088]
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post

    This is what I was thinking as I read the 80 pages of posts.

    The responsibility should be laid upon the people who committed the acts. Most here were assuming that the Muslims who were rioting and killing over the burning of a book half a world away had no control over their reactions, and thus could not be held accountable for them: they were demonstrating their belief that it was the West’s responsibility to make sure the Islamic world behaves in a civilized manner.

    I live in Washington DC and have many friends and neighbors that are Muslim; I asked them what they thought about the burning, they said that if they met Pastor Jones "they would cut his head off". I asked them about the actions taken by the people in Afghanistan and they applauded them... Now keep in mind that these are people that Work, Live and Pray in the USA. I told them that I would have an issue calling them Moderate Muslims because of their answers. They Said that the Education and culture of Islam is that you protect Islam with your life. I was a bit shocked, so I retreated to my den to study a little about the subject. I had to ponder my own belief system growing up as a catholic but find myself today a non religious person having studied Physics and math the past 30 years. I wondered who is God what does he mean to people? So I started to search the Bible, Quran and Torah to get my answers.

    Well after many nights of pouring through the religious text I find myself no closer to God than I was a week ago. So I called a college who is what I would consider a Well Educated non practicing Muslim Professor and asked him for some insight on this event and how moderate and extremist Muslims find themselves in agreement on this subject. His first comment was “do you have 20 years?” I don’t but he proceeded to tell me that Muslims are very devoted to the Political structure of Islam not to the religious aspect. Without the political structure the religion would not last because of the vast cultures that Islam is practiced from China, Indonesia, Middle East, Africa and Persia. It is the fastest growing religion in the world that spans every group, nationality and language.

    We make a natural mistake in our understanding of Islamic tradition, assuming that religion means the same for Muslims as it has meant for most other religious adherents ever since the industrial revolution, and for some societies, even before that; that is: a section of life reserved for certain matters, and separate from other sections of life. This is not the Islamic world view.

    Islam is a “total way of life.” It has provided guidance in every sphere of life, from individual cleanliness, rules of trade, to the structure and politics of the society. Islam can never be separated from social, political, or economic life, since religion provides moral guidance for every action that a person takes. The primary act of faith is to strive to implement God's will in both private and public life. Muslims see that they, themselves, as well as the world around them, must be in total submission to God and his Will. Moreover, they know that this concept of His rule must be established on earth in order to create a just society. Like Jews and Christians before them, Muslims have been called into a covenant relationship with God, making them a community of believers who must serve as an example to other nations by creating a Islamic moral social order. Throughout history, being a Muslim has meant not only belonging to a religious community of fellow believers but also living under the Islamic Law. For Islamic Law is believed to be an extension of God’s absolute sovereignty and God’s word written or sung is as sacred Gods own being.
    Does anyone else around here smell sock?
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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Random capitalisation Often appears with The scent, but whether It is cause or Effect is uncertain. If a being is going to cut and paste a tract of dreck, it's polite to at least ensure the spelling is correct. "Pouring" through texts?
    Don't work out, work in.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    [QUOTE=Andalublue;1059401200]
    Quote Originally Posted by 2K05GT View Post

    Does anyone else around here smell sock?
    Why is your quote all screwed up?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    [QUOTE=American;1059401306]
    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post

    Why is your quote all screwed up?
    That's a very good question. I shall ask the mods. I wasn't responding to Grant. Weirdo!
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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