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Thread: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I didn't say that reverend Asshole committed the murders. He did incite the people who did,. That is the view of this event that continues to escape you.

    If I go and poke a stick at a hornet's nest, the results are predictable. The hornets did the damage, but I'm the one who stirred them up.

    But, even as a dumb teenager, I didn't poke a stick at that hornet's nest a second time. Reverend Nutter seems to think he's made some worthwhile point. What I fail to see is just what that point is.
    The Muslim clerics in Afghanistan incited this violence. Not the Reverend Jones.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Where do you get these numbers from?

    j-mac
    Basically from my own general knowledge. Let's see if I was right:
    Answers.com estimates between 2 and 3 billion for Christians:

    So, whilst it is difficult to give a definite answer to the actual number of Christians in the world (estimates range from 2 - 3 billion), Christianity remains the most dominant of the world, and is still growing at an astonishing rate.
    The same source gives the number of Muslims at over a billion and a half:

    As of October 2009, there are about 1.57 billion Muslims of all ages living in the world today (in more than 200 countries of the world). This represents 23% of an estimated 2009 world population of 6.8 billion people. (per study done by Pew forum). Refer to related link below.
    Read more: Answers.com - How many Muslims are there in the world

    It looks like I may have underestimated the number of Jihadis, however:

    But when it comes to actual jihadists, to those who have or will commit an act of terrorism in Allah's name, my research suggests that they represent no more than one in one hundred of the 180 million young fundamentalist Muslim men prepared mentally, morally, and spiritually to be terrorists. That means that there are 1.8 million actual Islamic jihadists on the planet today - a number which could jump one hundred fold almost instantaneously should the opportunity arise.
    That represents about 1/10 of 1% who are actual Jihadis, but then, if that number could really jump a hundredfold, we could have a much larger problem on our hands.

    Which is one reason why stupid acts like burning a Koran with the sure knowledge that such an act would create more terrorists should be discouraged.
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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    It looks like I may have underestimated the number of Jihadis, however:
    I'd say so....LOL...


    j-mac
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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    OK, I did stir up a hornet's nest, didn't I?

    Firstly, the rioters who are causing all the trouble are being manipulated by leaders for their own ends. Not that what they are doing can be excused, mind you, but they are uneducated people who are being told that the "great Satan" is to blame for their troubles and that they can get a reward in Heaven by killing Satan's minions, the infidel. We can see that the same people that are manipulating them are to blame for their troubles, but they can not. They only know what they have been told. Secondly, Reverend Jones did know what the results of his actions would be, and went ahead and staged his little publicity stunt anyway.
    firstly you're stripping people of their humanity to lay blame at someone who exercised the right of free speech

    secondly, I find it highly dubious that Jones knew people would storm a UN compound and murder the inhabitants

    thirdly, the possibility of someone acting extremely to someone's exercising their rights could be used to excuse all manner of stupid ****, from the attack civil rights activists faced, to the murder of muslims after 9/11


    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The rioters may have more intelligence than hornets, but their reaction, given the words of the people leading them, was totally predictable.
    No it wasn't considering many Muslims didn't act in such a manner, and that Qurans have been burned previously, without such a result

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Secondly, the rioters don't represent Islam any more than Jones represents Christians.
    no one said they did. So I am unsure what the point of the above remark is

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Thirdly, there exists a fringe group of Christians who are easily manipulated by these events as well. They believe that a war between Islam and Christianity is a forerunner to the Second Coming, and so welcome such a war. Luckily, they don't go around chopping off heads like their Islamic counterparts do, but they are just as manipulated and misled by their leaders as the rioters are.
    this has nothing to do with what is being discussed,. But it does raise a good point: are people performing abortions guilty of the violence perpetrated against them, since some find abortion highly offensive and something they are willing to kill over?

    No, the people who committed the violence would be guilty, not the people complying with the laws and exercising their rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    A few terrorists out raising havoc is not nearly as scary as the religious nutters who are expecting and hoping for Armageddon and either the Second Coming or the Twelfth Imam. An all out war that spreads from the fringe to the mainstream would be the end of modern civilization, and that's no exaggeration.

    The numbers of both Christians and Muslims is in the billions. The fringe (yes, that is what it is) number in the thousands at best.
    Again, irrelevant to what is being discussed
    Last edited by ManofthPeephole; 04-05-11 at 09:40 PM.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    This is not a war between Christianity and Islam. It is not "all Islam" that is the problem. It is religious extremists that are the problem.

    Thank God, Allah, Jehovah, and Zeus, there is no war between two of the world's major religions. Such a war would end civilization as we know it.
    I don't think it is much of a stretch at all to say that 90% of all significant terrorist incidents in the last 50 years have been perpetrated by Muslim terrorists in the name of Islam. Islam is "the problem" - they made it so. They are the ones claiming to act in its name


    Islam has fought the west since its inception. The only reason they were quiet for awhile was because they were so overmatched militarily that they couldn't do much. Modern explosives, etc. have given them a means that they did not previously possess.

    In essence, our mere existence is reason for the existence of "radical" Islam such as the Taliban. It is politically correct to say they have hijacked Islam and do not represent "true" Islam. Even if that is true, there is sufficient support for their view in the Koran, etc., that we may kill off every member of the Taliban and Al Qaeda, and there will be a new group in the next generation that will espouse a similar belief and continue the war against us simply because we exist.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Muslim clerics in Afghanistan incited this violence. Not the Reverend Jones.
    More than Muslim clerics.

    The question is, who is really giving the orders? These guys seem to be able to order up rampaging murdering Muslims at will!

    Our man Karzai provoked Qur'an-burning riots - Jihad Watch

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by ManofthPeephole View Post
    firstly you're stripping people of their humanity to lay blame at someone who exercised the right of free speech
    No, they share the blame. Their manipulators have even more.

    Quote Originally Posted by ManofthPeephole View Post
    secondly, I find it highly dubious that Jones knew people would storm a UN compound and murder the inhabitants
    Jones own words:

    "We wanted to raise awareness of this dangerous religion and dangerous element," Jones said. "I think [today's attack] proves that there is a radical element of Islam
    We already knew that about the radical element of Islam. Just how do you think he intended to prove it? If he didn't expect violence, then his little demonstration would have failed.



    Quote Originally Posted by ManofthPeephole View Post
    thirdly, the possibility of someone acting extremely to someone's exercising their rights could be used to excuse all manner of stupid ****, from the attack civil rights activists faced, to the murder of muslims after 9/11
    Who is excusing the Jihadis?




    Quote Originally Posted by ManofthPeephole View Post
    this has nothing to do with what is being discussed,. But it does raise a good point: are people performing abortions guilty of the violence perpetrated against them, since some find abortion highly offensive and something they are willing to kill over?
    Speaking of something that has nothing to do with what is being discussed.

    Bill O'Reilly said it best:

    Bill O'Reilly on Florida Pastor Terry Jones and his Koran burning: He has 'blood on his hands'

    Bill O'Reilly ripped into the Koran-burning Florida pastor who sparked deadly riots in Afghanistan, calling him an "insane Christian" who has "blood on his hands."

    The conservative Fox News host said Monday night that Terry Jones "had to know fanatical Muslims would go crazy" when he oversaw the burning of the Islamic holy book on March 20.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    No, they share the blame. Their manipulators have even more.
    again, unless you feel they had no other response to burning a Quran, they chose to murder people of their own volition, and many other muslims did not



    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    from the article: ""We wanted to raise awareness of this dangerous religion and dangerous element," Jones said. "I think [today's attack] proves that there is a radical element of Islam."

    that doesn't establish what you claim. If I'm protesting the klan because I think they are a violent organization that doesn't amount to me having a plan for the klan to murder random people as a response to that protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    We already knew that about the radical element of Islam. Just how do you think he intended to prove it? If he didn't expect violence, then his little demonstration would have failed.
    If you're claiming that he had a certain intent, then it's incumbent on you to offer evidence of such. Also, simply getting his message out, by causing media controversy would be considered success regardless if he was just a media whore, or actually had real concerns about the topic. With neither requires violence.

    So again, we are stuck with your pointless outrage directed at people who committed no crime, while ignoring people who murder random people





    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Who is excusing the Jihadis?
    you are. You're excusing their behavior by holding someone else to blame for it







    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Speaking of something that has nothing to do with what is being discussed.

    Bill O'Reilly said it best:
    1) why would I care what O'reilly's opinion on the matter was?

    2) you're making an appeal to authority, and his argument has the same issues as your own

    3) you ignored my point about abortions and the violence associated with them. Are people performing abortions to blame for violence leveled against them, and others, since people have responded with violence in the past?
    Last edited by ManofthPeephole; 04-05-11 at 10:20 PM.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by ManofthPeephole View Post
    that doesn't establish what you claim. If I'm protesting the klan because I think they are a violent organization that doesn't amount to me having a plan for the klan to murder random people as a response to that protest
    On that note, the KKK started as pretty much a terrorist organization aimed at the oppression of minorities, and often times when black folk tried to vote, they would hunt them down and string them up. I guess those folk trying to vote share part of the blame in their own deaths because they knew the KKK would respond violently to their attempts at voting.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    On that note, the KKK started as pretty much a terrorist organization aimed at the oppression of minorities, and often times when black folk tried to vote, they would hunt them down and string them up. I guess those folk trying to vote share part of the blame in their own deaths because they knew the KKK would respond violently to their attempts at voting.
    Good job at letting historical facts totally cock up the argument. You were on a roll...up 'til this post.

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