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Thread: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I don't think anyone is saying the Islamists are innocent here. They are NOT! But.......
    There is always that "but" from the apologists.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I don't hold MLK responsible for the same reasons I don't hold policymakers and academics responsible for their criticisms: they aren't reckless and centered around provocation.
    then you're special pleading: you want your logic to only apply in select circumstances, and one'
    s where you don't agree with the content of the message

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    This my consistent argument: If someone is so unhinged that they feel the need to murder people, over speech, then you share responsibility when you provoke them.
    right, like those muslims who provoked people after 9/11, by openly practicing their religion

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    allowing guns in society means there will be a certain amount of gun crime. There will be those who abuse the right and then infringe upon the rights of others. We know this to be true. People who then own guns contribute to the gun culture and the number of guns in society. A certain percentage of those guns will be used for crime.

    Thus people who buy guns should be held responsible for gun crimes against others since they engage in a behavior they know will be abused by a certain sect of crazies in the world.

    That is your argument.
    No. That is not my argument. This would be my argument:

    Allowing guns in society means there will be a certain amount of gun crime. There will be those who abuse the right and then infringe upon the rights of others. We know this to be true. People who then own guns contribute to the gun culture and the number of guns in society. A certain percentage of those guns will be used for crime.

    Thus people who buy guns should use common sense with their right to bear arms and not threaten to shoot someone who owns one too like someone who uses free speech should use common sense and not provoke proven murderers with it.

    Use your right to bear arms responsibly and use your right to free speech responsibly.

    Once again, I am arguing for common sense.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by ManofthPeephole View Post
    right, like those muslims who provoked people after 9/11, by openly practicing their religion
    They should share part of the blame for the persecution, anger, and violence against them. They knew the circumstances and that people were pissed off because of 9/11 yet they had the audacity to freely practice their religion knowing that it would stir up angry and violent feelings from others. We should be able to take them to Civil Court for having practiced their religion because they contributed to the atmosphere of hate and anger by doing so!
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    If someone is so unhinged that they feel the need to beat their girlfriend over being there, then you share responsibility when you provoke them.
    Once again, a situation that has many different circumstances than the one we're talking about. The psychological factors of a woman in an abusive relationship do not exist in a man who burns Korans and provokes murderers.

  6. #326
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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Once again, I am arguing for common sense.
    It's not common sense to try to punish someone who is practicing a right because of the reactions of some nutjobs half the world away
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    What an idiotic statement. Shoving aside the notion that one would ever want to use the spawn of so many trite sequels for a damned metaphor, Jigsaw was in immediate proximity to alter the very survival of a human being and intentionally did so. The Paster was in no immediate proximity, had no life-altering power toward any individual, and was no evil menace to society.
    Can you think of another situation that comes close to illustrating where the act of one person forced the actions of another yet the first person isn't held liable for manipulating the situation? That's the comparison I was attempting to draw. And yes, I know it seems ludicris on the surface of it, but that's pretty much what's happened here. One man did something that was so stupid, so wreckless that he forced the actions of another individual (or in this case a group of individuals) to commit an act that was far more hanous in retaliation of the first.

    Now, you and I both see the absordity of the retalitory actions Islamists took, but in their minds an American dececrated their holy book. And such an act to them cannot go unpunished. So, what does radical Islam do? Strike out against the only guilty party it could find - U.N. workers because they were the closest thing to Americans they could find. It's sad...very sad. No one is excusing what they did. But at the same time, I think most people can agree that had Pastor Jones (or any other American for that matter, but especially him since his name and face had clearly be plastered all over the news world-wide) not burned the Qu'ron, I don't think we'd be here talking about this matter today. Do you?

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    There is always that "but" from the apologists.
    And where do you see me apologising for the wrongful acts committed on either side?

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Do you?
    No clue, those jerks are insane. It's quite possible they would have done it regardless, but they just used this pastor as an excuse. Had the pastor not done this, it's quite possible they would have still done the same thing but found a different excuse for having done so
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #330
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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Can you think of another situation that comes close to illustrating where the act of one person forced the actions of another yet the first person isn't held liable for manipulating the situation? That's the comparison I was attempting to draw. And yes, I know it seems ludicris on the surface of it, but that's pretty much what's happened here. One man did something that was so stupid, so wreckless that he forced the actions of another individual (or in this case a group of individuals) to commit an act that was far more hanous in retaliation of the first.

    Now, you and I both see the absordity of the retalitory actions Islamists took, but in their minds an American dececrated their holy book. And such an act to them cannot go unpunished. So, what does radical Islam do? Strike out against the only guilty party it could find - U.N. workers because they were the closest thing to Americans they could find. It's sad...very sad. No one is excusing what they did. But at the same time, I think most people can agree that had Pastor Jones (or any other American for that matter, but especially him since his name and face had clearly be plastered all over the news world-wide) not burned the Qu'ron, I don't think we'd be here talking about this matter today. Do you?
    I question the entire nature of "force" here. There was no force involved. Mr. Jones' proximity in almost all ways but publicity of his cheap stunt was immensely far away. There was no danger coming from his actions, no grand ultimatum, and no reason to attack anyone. To me, this is dangerously close to excusing the actions of these men.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 04-03-11 at 04:31 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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