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Thread: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by ManofthPeephole View Post
    Burning a quran isn't reckless, the reaction of killing random people is. Speaking for equal rights isn't reckless, the response of randomly attacking black people is. If someone is so unhinged that they feel the need to murder people, over speech, then they are the sole issue here. Not the person making a harmless statement

    they have a choice to murder people, or not
    If someone is so unhinged that they feel the need to murder people, over speech, then you share responsibility when you provoke them. I would never do things that General Petraeus has told me might cause security risks...I try to use common sense with my freedom of speech.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    He is no man of god. He is as cold blooded as the murders in Afghanistan. He knew exactly what he was doing and what reaction there would be against it. He provoked the murders of Afghanistan and should stand trial for at least man-slaughter if not out right murder. Alternatively he should be extradited to Afghanistan or any Muslim nation who wants him and let them deal with his hatemongering.
    It is impossible, among a certain mind-set, for Muslims to do anything wrong.

    No matter what crimes they commit, how deep and serious the atrocities, they will always find some non-Muslims to blame.

    It is a form of insanity.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The crime being???
    Quote Originally Posted by ManofthPeephole View Post
    why not charge him with sedition and ill-love for the mother land?
    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    He isn't in a war zone...
    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Have you not been reading this thread? Anyone here who calls for Jones to be sued, extradited to Afgahnistan, stoned, hands cut off or whatever, is not only questioning his right to free speech, they're saying he doesn't have it. Look, I totally agree that just because something is a right, doesn't mean it is right, but I'd rather live in a country where there's free speech even if it's speech that offends me.
    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I think every one here has questioned his wisdom and courage. We don't have to like the speaker or the message to believe in free speech.
    Say during Vietnam, there was the ability for one individual to communicate to the world an action. Looking at the video of the burning, the pastor is flanked by the American flag and in fact proceedings appear to those not familiar with fundamentalist American churches, to be those of a courtroom.
    The pastor is dressed like a judge, the proceedings mock an actual "sentencing" some may have seen from American high profile cases that were excerpted on YouTube. This guys knew exactly what he was doing imo, but even so, as I suggest, say this was during Vietnam. This pastor was contacted by President Johnson or Nixon and also by the top commander in the field and warned that such actions would endanger the lives of soldiers and operations in the field. So he goes on world wide media and burns the Vietnamese holy book or images while pretending to look like an American judge and flanked by an American flag in a mock sentencing. It would have caused disruption of our war efforts to say the very least. Say it was during WWII. Say he burned the Torah in such a mock trial fashion. The propaganda spun off it on both sides would have lead to changes in outcomes of treaties, field organization, and assistance from allies...
    Now do you see what I mean? During my father's generation not only would the murderers of US personnel have been routed, but this man would have been held accountable for all the mayhem he caused with his actions.
    Freedom of speech is one thing. Subversion in times of war is another.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    If someone is so unhinged that they feel the need to murder people, over speech, then you share responsibility when you provoke them. I would never do things that General Petraeus has told me might cause security risks...I try to use common sense with my freedom of speech.
    I think GP suggesting that people need to curb their civil rights, due to military interest, is more of a concern than what some random assholes does to his own property. Secondly, then you need to hold the civil rights movement accountable for the numerous racists they provoked, and the muslims who provoked people by openly practicing their faith after 9/11.

    This is the logical outcome of your argument: people are responsible for the irrational acts of others
    Last edited by ManofthPeephole; 04-03-11 at 03:54 PM.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    If someone is so unhinged that they feel the need to murder people, over speech, then you share responsibility when you provoke them. I would never do things that General Petraeus has told me might cause security risks...I try to use common sense with my freedom of speech.
    You mean that no one anywhere can be critical of Muslims or Islam because they will most likely murder people somewhere in the world as a consequence?

    I think you nailed it.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    Here on DP, it seems some are quite willing to blame Jones for the deaths.
    I think you are overstating the case. However, people here and elsewhere are spending so much time discussing his role in the matter that the people who had control of their faculties and their bare hands get lost in the conversation except as to compare them to irresponsible children who are being parented by an irresponsible parent by the name of Mr. Jones. Such views are unintentionally paternalistic and are reducing the confidence in the notion that grown men can behave as living, breathing, thinking, responsible adults in a world that may not always share their demands, which is certainly ironically illiberal.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 04-03-11 at 04:01 PM.
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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by ManofthPeephole View Post
    I think GP suggesting that people need to curb their cuivil rights, due to militery interest, is more of a concern than what some random assholes does to his opwn property. Secondly, then you need to hold the civil rights movement accountable for the numerous racists they provoked. And the muslims who provoked people by openly practicing their faith after 9/11
    Suggesting people use common sense is not trying to curb civil rights. This why your mother telling you not call a black person a nigger is not the same as her trying to curb your civil rights.

    I don't need to do anything about the civil rights movement. We're talking about a specific situation and you're trying to attack my argument with a situation that happened in a very different environment than the one we're talking about.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    What this Pastor in Florida did reminds me of the legal conflict authorities had in prosecuting Jigsaw in the SAW movie series. No, Jigsaw didn't kill anyone, but he certainly placed people in precurious positions where "it was either him or me". It's kinda the same things.

    This Pastor was cautioned last year that if he burned the Qu'ron, the Muslim world, specifically in Iraq and Afghanistan where we have a large U.S. military presence, would retaliate. He was warned that in doing so the lives of American military and coalition forces would be placed in jeapordy. He knew the likelihood that people's lives would be in danger, but he gambled with them anyway. And for what? To prove his point that radical Islamists would do anything to justify saving the honor of their sacred holy book even commit murder and use same to justify the hypocricy of American religious tolerence? Well, we already knew that didn't we? 9/11 was the proof!

    I don't know if this Pastor can be charged with murder or manslaughter or any other crime, but if he could be charged with reckless endangerment or stupidity, I'd certainly throw the book at him. Why? Because his wreckless actions in the wake of being forewarned what would happen if he carried out his deed did, in fact, cost lives. Moreover, his actions likely will cause set-backs in any progress made in Iraq and Afghanistan by U.S. and coalition forces needlessly, thereby placing innocent lives further in peril.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 04-03-11 at 04:03 PM.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant Noodle View Post
    Oh, ok. Yeah I was writting it and started thinking that it IS so horrible that I needed to put a warning on there. I saw it a month or so ago and it was a horrible experience just hearing and seeing it.
    I watched it and it will stick with me. That was horrible. Also, now if someone checks out all the sites I've visited, they may think I'm into porn. Wasn't that video available anywhere other than a porn site?
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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I think most people are focusing on the pastor in this thread because he is the only people refuse to attribute any amount of responsibility to. I don't think there's any question that the actual murderers hold the majority of the responsibility...since they actually killed people.
    Really? Seems to me he is the one being blamed while the real murderers are being excused.
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