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Thread: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Yes, he was completely within his rights. Now, it's time for him to face up to the responsibilities that go with those rights.
    He didn't do anything wrong though. He burned a piece of his property, that's it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Of course, it is not a reasonable response, but it was the expected response.
    Yet you want to hold the Pastor responsible for the unreasonable responses of others. I don't see how that's justifiable in this case.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    No, civil court is the way we determine when someone elses actions has impinged on our own liberties, not government force. Taking someone to court for the results of their having exercised the right to free speech is not the same as the government taking away that right.
    How are these judgements enforced? It's through government power. You're still looking to use government force. Sure, you won't say maybe he should be in jail. But you are saying that the government can rightfully be used to impose a form of punishment on this man for the actions other people had taken. I don't see that as a reasonable response. You can't punish someone for exercising their rights because other people reacted poorly to it.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by ManofthPeephole View Post
    lol, you're asking me to answer for the beliefs of others?

    Vietnam was lost due to poor leadership, and political interests taking precedence over military ones.

    The protests were just the symptoms of such ill planning, not the cause
    sorry I wasn't addressing that question to you specifically I just thought that you brought up some good analogies. Thanks for being honest.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  3. #283
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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by ManofthPeephole View Post
    Both are forms of speech that hurt no one, and shouldn't be held liable by the irrational response to it. Otherwise, you're endorsing silencing speech that is in anyway controversial, and may rile people
    I'm endorsing common sense. If I were endorsing silencing speech, I would have argued that he should be jailed, which I'm not.

    I am arguing that he and others should accept his partial responsibility for the violence that has occurred.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I'm endorsing common sense. If I were endorsing silencing speech, I would have argued that he should be jailed, which I'm not.

    I am arguing that he and others should accept his partial responsibility for the violence that has occurred.
    But he didn't endorse, support, or authorize any of the violence. That was a decision made by a different group of people. They are the ones at fault. We shouldn't curtail our own rights due to the irrational behavior of others. How much more fear mongering are we going to allow to erode our rights?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    I guess I don't understand what you're trying to say. That we should all burn Korans to shove it in people's face?

    What most of us are saying is that it wasn't a nice thing to do. Especially for someone who claims to follow Jesus, and is in a position to teach people how to do so. It's not a very Christian way of acting, IMO.
    Exactly. He's an ass and a poor excuse for a Christian. Just like I think anyone who burns the flag is a poor excuse for an American (if they are one) and if not, they are still dispicable and worthy of my condemnation. What they don't deserve is any kind of prosecution if their actions cause some fringe group to kill innocent people over it. Again, if everytime a flag was burned, a fringe group killed innocent people, don't you think their rights to burn the flag are being compromised? If that were to happen, I would be squarely on the side of the flag burner and against those who did the killing.
    Here on DP, it seems some are quite willing to blame Jones for the deaths.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But he didn't endorse, support, or authorize any of the violence. That was a decision made by a different group of people. They are the ones at fault. We shouldn't curtail our own rights due to the irrational behavior of others. How much more fear mongering are we going to allow to erode our rights?
    Ignorance and the absence of intention do not imply the absence of responsibility. If I didn't see the stop sign and I didn't intend to drive by the stop sign, it doesn't mean that my actions are complete absent of responsibility for the ticket I receive or the car I hit.

    I am not arguing that he is solely responsible or even that he shares a majority of the responsibility. I am arguing that he has a part in the cause.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I'm endorsing common sense. If I were endorsing silencing speech, I would have argued that he should be jailed, which I'm not.

    I am arguing that he and others should accept his partial responsibility for the violence that has occurred.
    what responsibility though? Again, is MLK responsible for the unreasonable demands and actions of racists, when he was talking about equality, or were the racists the one's responsible for their own actions

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Ignorance and the absence of intention do not imply the absence of responsibility. If I didn't see the stop sign and I didn't intend to drive by the stop sign, it doesn't mean that my actions are complete absent of responsibility for the ticket I receive or the car I hit.

    I am not arguing that he is solely responsible or even that he shares a majority of the responsibility. I am arguing that he has a part in the cause.
    This isn't him breaking a law, like in your example. He stopped at the stop sign. It would be like blaming him for the accident which happens behind him if he stopped too long at the stop sign and pissed the person off behind him so that person decided not to stop at the stop sign. That's essentially what's going on.

    This wasn't a panic situation. He didn't incite a riot. It's not like he was preaching to a crowd and caused the crowd to explode and go on a looting frenzy. The people had plenty of time to digest the information and formulate a response. They chose their actions, they are responsible for their actions. Not the preacher, he's just some lame ass looking for some press time.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Ignorance and the absence of intention do not imply the absence of responsibility.
    No, but clearly having no ability to actually compel people to do anything does resolve someone of the burden of their actions


    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    If I didn't see the stop sign and I didn't intend to drive by the stop sign, it doesn't mean that my actions are complete absent of responsibility for the ticket I receive or the car I hit.
    that's negligence on your part while performing an action. As a driver it's your responsibility to maintain attention on the road

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    He is no man of god. He is as cold blooded as the murders in Afghanistan. He knew exactly what he was doing and what reaction there would be against it. He provoked the murders of Afghanistan and should stand trial for at least man-slaughter if not out right murder. Alternatively he should be extradited to Afghanistan or any Muslim nation who wants him and let them deal with his hatemongering.
    EDIT: NVM (10 characters)
    Last edited by DarkWizard12; 04-03-11 at 03:34 PM.

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