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Thread: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

  1. #211
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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Reverend Jones had every right, under the first Amendment, to burn the Koran.

    Along with that right, comes responsibility.

    You can yell "fire" in the crowded theater, but you're responsible for the riot that ensues. You can say that your neighbor is a child molester, but, if that isn't true, your neighbor has the right to sue for defamation. You have the right to incite crazies to violence, but you're responsible for the results.

    There are no rights without responsibilities.
    the reason you can't yell fire in a theater is because it creates circumstances that people don't have the option to deliberate over, because such could lead to their death. Such a scenario isn't created by burning the Quran

    Also, do you feel the civil rights activists were responsible for how they "incited" racists?

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
    Really? Who is saying it? Even FOX news is condemning Jones.
    you're making an appeal to popularity

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Here we go again. It is a question that is fair. Jones can use whatever excuse he wants for his stupidity. Rights don't explain the question being asked.
    Quote Originally Posted by ManofthPeephole View Post
    from my understanding he was protesting islam and sharia law, namely that islam is evil. But wouldn't try to over analyze things, being that his thoughts on the subject are a little off and over simplistic.

    But that's tthe burden of free speech. For it to be a real right, even people like Fred Phelps, and thiss guy, need to be able to exercise it. So it doesn't really matter if you get it

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    I am pointing out that people like General Patraeus have condemned Jones. Why? Does the genearl not believe in his rights? Ofcourse not. The General lives in reality. He understands he has people to protect and a situation he is trying to control. Most people get that Jones is a pubixity seeker who doesn't care what sort of violence he stirs up. You like the rest of us should condemn his ignorance. It doesn't mean you are denying him his free speech.
    Quote Originally Posted by ManofthPeephole View Post
    you're making an appeal to popularity

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post

    You don't understand self expression? And you claim to be a Liberal??
    No, I don't understand the point in burning a Qu'ran. Especially by a reverend.

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by ManofthPeephole View Post
    the reason you can't yell fire in a theater is because it creates circumstances that people don't have the option to deliberate over, because such could lead to their death. Such a scenario isn't created by burning the Quran
    Such a scenario was created by burning the Koran, unless, of course, you think the victims actually had the option to deliberate their fate.

    Quote Originally Posted by ManofthPeephole View Post
    Also, do you feel the civil rights activists were responsible for how they "incited" racists?
    Absolutely. The civil rights activists were responsible for all of the outcomes of their activism. The question is, were there more positive, or more negative consequences to their actions?
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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    I love that when you are running out of running room with your arguments you turn to the old "Well ya but what about those other guys". Civil rights have nothing at all to do with this subject. It's simply a way to obscure the issue. One issue at a time would be reasonable I would think.
    Quote Originally Posted by ManofthPeephole View Post
    the reason you can't yell fire in a theater is because it creates circumstances that people don't have the option to deliberate over, because such could lead to their death. Such a scenario isn't created by burning the Quran

    Also, do you feel the civil rights activists were responsible for how they "incited" racists?

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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Not at all. There is a difference between one making a choice that affects others and one having any responsibility in the behavior of those other people. For example, if I burn the US Flag, and someone gets pissed off that I did it and goes on a killing rampage, my behavior had an impact on others, and it may have been prudent for me to have not burned the flag... even though it was entirely legal for me to do so. Even with this, though, I am not responsible for the behaviors of that other person's murders.
    True. However if everytime someone burned an American flag, 12 people would be killed in a horrific manner, wouldn't you say your right to burn the flag was at least seriously compromised? In my opinion, the right to burn the flag in the future isn't much of a right at all because it's doubtful anyone would exercise it.
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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Quote Originally Posted by ManofthPeephole View Post
    the reason you can't yell fire in a theater is because it creates circumstances that people don't have the option to deliberate over, because such could lead to their death. Such a scenario isn't created by burning the Quran

    Also, do you feel the civil rights activists were responsible for how they "incited" racists?
    That is an incredibly literalist interpretaton of the yelling fire analogy. Much like the thinking behind the pastor's triggering of events.
    We have several past instances of both real and alleged Koran abuse and the extreme, often lethal reaction to those events on the part of some ill-educated natives. Knowing this, the pastor chose to set the pavlovian bell ringing, and the kindest interpretation of his action could be said to be that he possibly got a more extreme reaction than he expected.
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    Re: Pastor who burned Koran demands retribution

    Not to mention the right has tried to outlaw flag burning on several occasions so they must have felt pretty hurt by it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    True. However if everytime someone burned an American flag, 12 people would be killed in a horrific manner, wouldn't you say your right to burn the flag was at least seriously compromised? In my opinion, the right to burn the flag in the future isn't much of a right at all because it's doubtful anyone would exercise it.

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