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8 killed in protest at UN office in Northern Afghanistan

ManofthPeephole said:
Nope, telling some religous nut job to go suck a **** is the perfectly correct thing to do, when the nut job feels his religon should invade on my rights
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And then you wonder why you would get ignored by anyone of faith? Really, it is not the right thing to do.

Right thing: It should be my right to marry who I wish no matter what your religion says in a free country, or so I thought.

May provoke a reasonable discourse that may win hearts and minds.

Wrong way: Go suck a ****.

People would think "what a dick" and continue shouting "God hates fags!"

Simple logic.
 
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Mikeyy said:
Having a right to do something is different from it being right to do something. I have a right to do a lot of things you would find disgusting. That doesn't mean I should do them. Understand?
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I find nothing about the exercise of my constitutionally guaranteed rights, in the face of an opposition who would want to see them removed, disgusting
 
Blackdog said:
And then you wonder why you would get ignored by anyone of faith? Really, it is not the right thing to do.

Right thing: It should be my right to marry who I wish no matter what your religion says in a free country, or so I thought.

May provoke a reasonable discourse that may win hearts and minds.

Wrong way: Go suck a ****.

People would think "what a dick" and continue shouting "God hates fags!"

Simple logic.
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if someone of faith, wants to remove my rights, based on *their* faith, then they would be the dick, and someone I have no interest in associating with; because it's clear they have no respect for me as an individual
 
They don't live here and don't share your constitutional rights. Again, They are not trying to indoctrinate you personally so why support a guy who hides behind "our" rights to tweek others into violence. What do you get out of it except the satisfaction of bothering people?
ManofthPeephole said:
I find nothing about the exercise of my constitutionally guaranteed rights, in the face of an opposition who would want to see them removed, disgusting
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Mikeyy said:
They don't live here and don't share your constitutional rights. Again, They are not trying to indoctrinate you personally so why support a guy who hides behind "our" rights to tweek others into violence. What do you get out of it except the satisfaction of bothering people?
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they are trying to silence free speech via the threat of violence. I am unsure why I shouldn't support a person under such circumstances, regardless of his message. See, once they try to remove the right to free speech, the content of the speech becomes meaningless, because it's a threat to the exercise of free speech, itself
 
ManofthPeephole said:
if someone of faith, wants to remove my rights, based on *their* faith, then they would be the dick, and someone I have no interest in associating with; because it's clear they have no respect for me as an individual
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And then you wonder why this is happening in so many states. :doh
 
Blackdog said:
And then you wonder why this is happening in so many states. :doh
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that asshioles want to be assholes? I think it's like one of those universal constants, and figure if these people weren't trying to push religion on me, it would be something else
 
So what does burning their holy book do for you? Or supporting someone who does? Does it make it better or simply make you feel good? See my point is we should be bigger then getting in the mud with nutcases.
ManofthPeephole said:
they are trying to silence free speech via the threat of violence. I am unsure why I shouldn't support a person under such circumstances, regardless of his message. See, once they try to remove the right to free speech, the content of the speech becomes meaningless, because it's a threat to the exercise of free speech, itself
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Mikeyy said:
So what does burning their holy book do for you? Or supporting someone who does? Does it make it better or simply make you feel good? See my point is we should be bigger then getting in the mud with nutcases.
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Again, I just explained the message becomes meaningless once a threat is made against the exercise of free speech, like it has been here. And what matters here is a) it's his constitutionally protected right b) he harmed no one while doing it c) and it's completely reasonable to allow people to be critical of organizations, ideologies, and religion
 
Mikeyy said:
Even so, Nobody in this country is trying to take your rights.
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No one claimed they were, and such is pretty immaterial to the discussion. But clearly the threat of violence is being used to intimidate people into not exercising that right. In fact, this entire thread is about exactly that. And being that people are blaming the pastor and talking about how horrible it is that he burned some wood pulp, I would say the threat is working
 
It's not the threat. I don't feel intimidated by some Afghan's views. I do think that Terry Jones made a fire not to keep warm or roast marshmellows. He did it because he wanted to make someone who loves their holy book angry. Ya know many Muslims have fought and died for America since our inception. They are buried at Normandy and Arlington. So why not be mad at Islamists and leave peoples religious book alone?
ManofthPeephole said:
No one claimed they were, and such is pretty immaterial to the discussion. But clearly the threat of violence is being used to intimidate people into not exercising that right. In fact, this entire thread is about exactly that. And being that people are blaming the pastor and talking about how horrible it is that he burned some wood pulp, I would say the threat is working
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ManofthPeephole said:
that asshioles want to be assholes? I think it's like one of those universal constants, and figure if these people weren't trying to push religion on me, it would be something else
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This is true. To bad you choose to shout obscenities and ignore what they are saying instead of trying to explain why they are wrong.

I am a good example. I was against it not to long ago. Some good people convinced me it is not turning my back on God to support what is fair in a secular nation. Do I approve of it? No. Do I think it is fair for two consenting adults too have all the same privileges whether I like it or not? Yes.

People like you is one of the reasons it took me so long to change my view. Reasonable people like Captain Courtesy and Digsbe, helped me change my mind.
 
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Mikeyy said:
It's not the threat. I don't feel intimidated by some Afghan's views.
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well, unfortunately for you, many people have based their criticism on the pastor doing this, despite the possibility of violence.

Mikeyy said:
I do think that Terry Jones made a fire not to keep warm or roast marshmellows.
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no one said he did

Mikeyy said:
He did it because he wanted to make someone who loves their holy book angry.
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If you mean "be critical of a religion, as is guaranteed by the constitution", I would say yes, that was the point. But being critical of things often gets people upset, and see that as no basis to curtail such rights


Mikeyy said:
Ya know many Muslims have fought and died for America since our inception.
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so we should curtail free speech because muslims have died fighting for our basic rights, one of which is the right to free speech?

I suggest actually thinking before you type


Mikeyy said:
They are buried at Normandy and Arlington. So why not be mad at Islamists and leave peoples religious book alone?
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Because he was criticizing the religion, as is his right.
 
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Blackdog said:
This is true. To bad you choose to shout obscenities and ignore what they are saying instead of trying to explain why they are wrong.
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I just explained that I feel it isn't worth my time to discuss things with people who don't see any value in me as an individual

Blackdog said:
I am a good example. I was against it not to long ago. Some good people convinced me it is not turning my back on God to support what is fair in a secular nation. Do I approve of it? No. Do I think it is fair for two consenting adults too have all the same privileges whether I like it or not? Yes.
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well, great for you

Blackdog said:
People like you is one of the reasons it took me so long to change my view. Reasonable people like Captain Courtesy and Digsbe, helped me change my mind.
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So I'm to blame that you lacked the ability to see your ideals as dumb and bigoted? Well, you have my humblest apology *curtsies*
 
ManofthPeephole said:
I just explained that I feel it isn't worth my time to discuss things with people who don't see any value in me as an individual
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It has nothing to do with "your value" and more to do with their "morals." But you don't want to understand why.

ManofthPeephole said:
well, great for you
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:doh

ManofthPeephole said:
So I'm to blame that you lacked the ability to see your ideals as dumb and bigoted? Well, you have my humblest apology *curtsies*
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Ummmm? You are not to blame for anything? I said "people like you" were one of many reasons that helped derail my support for SSM.

As for "dumb and bigoted" no my views were not. You seem to like unfounded accusations and personal attacks more than debate.

So with that I will say God bless, and good night.
 
You keep saying it's a right. I have already said it is. That doesn't mean you need to excersize it. He did this to make other people upset. And on top of that he has made a decission to lump anyone who is Muslim together. And you support that. I have just mentioned that many Muslims have seved this country with distinction and you still think because Jones has a right he should do it. You keep confusing the right to do something with the need. Or for that matter the possible consiquences. We are all grown up to know this is about Jones and his hate for Muslims. It's that simple. But he didn't go out and risk his own butt. He hides behind the protection of those who do have their butts on the line to play some silly game. That shouldn't be supported and encouraged. He should be called out as a bigot and a coward. And an instigator.
ManofthPeephole said:
well, unfortunately for you, many people have based their criticism on the pastor doing this, despite the possibility of violence.



no one said he did



If you mean "be critical of a religion, as is guaranteed by the constitution", I would say yes, that was the point. But being critical of things often gets people upset, and see that as no basis to curtail such rights




so we should curtail free speech because muslims have died fighting for our basic rights, one of which is the right to free speech?

I suggest actually thinking before you type




Because he was criticizing the religion, as is his right.
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Mikeyy said:
They don't live here and don't share your constitutional rights. Again, They are not trying to indoctrinate you personally so why support a guy who hides behind "our" rights to tweek others into violence. What do you get out of it except the satisfaction of bothering people?
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Because I took an oath, to protect his rights, even if I don't agree with what he's doing, or saying and although I'm no longer under an official obligation to do so, I still feel a personal obligation to support this cat's right to burn whichever book he wishes, whether I like it, or not.

It's legal for the Westboro Baptist Church to protest soldiers's funerals and for people to burn the American Flag, both of which make me want to kick someone's ass, but because they have the right to do so, there's not much I can do. The people involved in these murders need to join us here in the 21st Century and realize that, the way that I realize it. "It's just the way their culture is", is no excuse.
 
Mikeyy said:
You keep saying it's a right. I have already said it is. That doesn't mean you need to excersize it. He did this to make other people upset. And on top of that he has made a decission to lump anyone who is Muslim together. And you support that. I have just mentioned that many Muslims have seved this country with distinction and you still think because Jones has a right he should do it. You keep confusing the right to do something with the need. Or for that matter the possible consiquences. We are all grown up to know this is about Jones and his hate for Muslims. It's that simple. But he didn't go out and risk his own butt. He hides behind the protection of those who do have their butts on the line to play some silly game. That shouldn't be supported and encouraged. He should be called out as a bigot and a coward. And an instigator.
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all this has already been addressed: see my arguments on the civil rights movement, the kkk, and interracial couples
 
theplaydrive said:
If morons in this country didn't walk around burning Korans and proving Islamic extremists right (who claim that the U.S. hates Muslims), some of this stuff could be avoided. Some people will always hate us, but when we prove their accusations right, their cause becomes more legitimate and violence like this becomes more likely.
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Some people hate christains and jews, some people hate white, black or brown folk. Why are we expected to walk on eggshells so as not to offend the thin skinned muslim? Makes me wanna burn my Quran.
 
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