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Thread: President Obama Signs Order Authorizing Covert Operations in Libya

  1. #21
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    Re: President Obama Signs Order Authorizing Covert Operations in Libya

    combat boots webb from virginia (who's gonna pose a LOT of problems for the party, by the way) today:

    RealClearPolitics - Video - Sen. Webb On Libya: "We Are Clearly Involved In Regime Change"

    can you deny it, the white house does

    and yet, if regime is NOT changed, then humanitarianism in libya is a dead letter

    fundamentally incoherent, mr commander in chief

    wise watchers could expect no other, tho, after watching the totally incompetent and confused waging of OBAMA'S WAR in afghanistan

    stay up (which means go after the issues and the news figures, not each other)

    pray for our soldiers, our nation, the libyans...

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    Re: President Obama Signs Order Authorizing Covert Operations in Libya

    gates and mullen appeared today before house armed services

    republicans grilled em

    Gates, Mullen face hostile Libya questions - CNN.com

    miller of florida---a vote today in this chamber would fail, the rebels are getting their butts whipped

    turner of ohio---goals unclear, the white house has not been honest with us

    coffman, colorado---the most muddled mission in american history

    democrat loesback of iowa---lotta concerns about who the rebels are

    gates---we have "not much visibility" into the rebels

    gates---their ability to govern is limited or nonexistent

    jones of north carolina---we already can't pay our bills, there's been no consultation with congress whatsoever

    gibson, ny---military and political goals are "not harmonized"

    can you deny any of it?

    worry

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    Re: President Obama Signs Order Authorizing Covert Operations in Libya

    it's worth noting at this point how much we are relying on foreign sources, der spiegel, the guardian...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...-assault-fails

    Libya's revolutionary leadership has denied that its military campaign is in crisis even as its forces were driven further into retreat after a failed attempt to retake the oil town of Brega [150 miles west of gadaffi hometown and stronghold sirte/surt/sidra].

    The rebels launched an assault on Brega in a bid to prevent Muammar Gaddafi's forces from threatening Ajdabiya, the gateway to the revolutionaries' de facto capital of Benghazi and other "liberated" towns along Libya's eastern coast. But the government army swiftly repelled the rebel attack even though Gaddafi's forces were also hit by western air strikes.

    The rebels again turned and fled under a barrage of rocket fire as Gaddafi's army adopted some of the revolutionaries' own [flanking] tactics – highly mobile units using weapons mounted on pickup trucks so as to be less vulnerable to the air strikes.
    a major subtheme of the story is the rebels' insistence that the cause is not lost

    is that bad news? good?

    another issue raised---how long it takes to train soldiers in the hi tech use of the weapons, frankly, that hillary is pushing to provide the rebels who look so much like a paris mob

    it's the "revolutionary spokesman" in benghazi, in fact, who worries out loud about the operation, for instance, of surface to air rockets

    der spiegel spoke of the rebels ruining captured tanks thru inability to handle em, another example

    pray
    Last edited by The Prof; 03-31-11 at 08:26 PM.

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    Re: President Obama Signs Order Authorizing Covert Operations in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    another issue raised---how long it takes to train soldiers in the hi tech use of the weapons, frankly, that hillary is pushing to provide the rebels who look so much like a paris mob
    SOFs cannot be mass produced and competent SOFs cannot be created after emergencies occur.

    Also, this bull**** about President Obama calling for Omar to step down. Since when does the US or any other country have the right to determine who is in charge of another nation (that they haven't defeated in war)? Since when did Omar become accountable to Obama? And our press just goes with it, Prof

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    Re: President Obama Signs Order Authorizing Covert Operations in Libya

    The UN and NATO were on Libya faster than flies to **** once the country became unstable. That's what happens when oil security is involved.

    Make no mistake, this has nothing to do with toppling a brutal dictator. Just a few months ago, he was our ally.

    We're only installing democracy now because it's more convenient for us and it pleases the Libyans who would otherwise hate us for not supporting it.

    I'm so sick of the meaningless double talk from the White House. The day they say one honest thing is the day that we all go ice skating in hell.

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    Re: President Obama Signs Order Authorizing Covert Operations in Libya

    IF we had reason for a greater expectation that actual democracies might arise from the revolts taking place in Libya, then I would agree that support for them would make sense. In this day and age, fundamental Islam is on the rise. Fundamentalist will seize control of the revolutions as the Bolsheviks seized the Russian revolution in 1917.

    Besides, how can a 12th century tribal Arabic culture be compatible with modern democracy? Anyone

    Islam exclusionism is not compatible with the human rights and tolerance inherent in a democratic society.

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    Re: President Obama Signs Order Authorizing Covert Operations in Libya


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    Re: President Obama Signs Order Authorizing Covert Operations in Libya

    today: nato threatens to bomb the rebels

    Members of the NATO alliance have sternly warned the rebels in Libya not to attack civilians as they push against the government of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, according to senior military and government officials.

    As NATO takes over control of airstrikes in Libya, and the Obama administration considers new steps to tip the balance of power there, the coalition has told the rebels that if they endanger civilians, they will not be shielded from possible bombardment by NATO planes and missiles, just as the government’s forces have been punished.

    “We’ve been conveying a message to the rebels that we will be compelled to defend civilians, whether pro-Qaddafi or pro-opposition,” said a senior Obama administration official. “We are working very hard behind the scenes with the rebels so we don’t confront a situation where we face a decision to strike the rebels to defend civilians.”

    The warnings, and intense consultations within the NATO-led coalition over its rules for attacking anyone who endangers innocent civilians, come at a time when the civil war in Libya is becoming ever more chaotic, and the battle lines ever less distinct. They raise a fundamental question that the military is now grappling with: who in Libya is a civilian?

    Meanwhile, fresh intelligence this week showed that Libyan government forces were supplying assault rifles to civilians in the town of Surt, which is populated largely by Qaddafi loyalists. These civilian Qaddafi sympathizers were seen chasing rebel forces in nonmilitary vehicles like sedans and trucks, accompanied by Libyan troops, according to American military officers.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/01/wo..._r=3&src=twrhp

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    Re: President Obama Signs Order Authorizing Covert Operations in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    today: nato threatens to bomb the rebels



    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/01/wo..._r=3&src=twrhp
    OMFG. This is a can of worms to the Nth Degree.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: President Obama Signs Order Authorizing Covert Operations in Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    OMFG. This is a can of worms to the Nth Degree.
    This thing just got a whole lot more complicated...
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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