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Thread: The President's Speech on Libya

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    Re: The President's Speech on Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    By not seeking congressional approval he proved to be a huge hypocrite. Why should anyone take anything he promises seriously?
    I thought the speech described chaos. He said he consulted with Congressional leaders. Who? Congressional leaders on both sides are piffed off that they were not consulted and not even informed until 90 minutes before it happened even though he had had a meeting with them earlier and he knew at the time what he was going to do.

    I think Obama doesn't want to be involved in this at all for many, many reasons from ideological to political, maybe even spiritual.

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    Re: The President's Speech on Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Marshabar View Post
    President Obama:

    For generations, the United States of America has played a unique role as an anchor of global security and advocate for human freedom.

    President Obama's mentor and spiritual advisor for 20 years:

    "We bombed Grenada and killed innocent civilians, babies, non-military personnel.

    "We bombed the black civilian community of Panama with stealth bombers and killed unarmed teenage and toddlers, pregnant mothers and hard working fathers.

    "We bombed Qaddafi's home, and killed his child. Blessed are they who bash your children's head against the rock.

    "We bombed Iraq. We killed unarmed civilians trying to make a living. We bombed a plant in Sudan to pay back for the attack on our embassy, killed hundreds of hard working people, mothers and fathers who left home to go that day not knowing that they'd never get back home.

    "We bombed Hiroshima. We bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon and we never batted an eye.

    "Kids playing in the playground. Mothers picking up children after school. Civilians, not soldiers, people just trying to make it day by day.

    "We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff that we have done overseas is now brought right back into our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost.

    "Violence begets violence. Hatred begets hatred. And terrorism begets terrorism. A white ambassador said that y'all, not a black militant. Not a reverend who preaches about racism. An ambassador whose eyes are wide open and who is trying to get us to wake up and move away from this dangerous precipice upon which we are now poised. The ambassador said the people we have wounded don't have the military capability we have. But they do have individuals who are willing to die and take thousands with them. And we need to come to grips with that."


    Pretty strange departure from twenty years of spiritual guidance I'd say.
    First off, I agree with those who consider pulling the President's foremore Paster into the debate is a low blow.

    Second, I think most people (Republicans) who denounce Rev. Wright's words fail to comprehend what he's saying. Instead of reading his words in their full and proper context, most people instead stop at the "attention getter" line..."America's chickens are coming home to roost", a clear reference (I believe) to Muslim extremist's retaliatory assault on U.S. soil on 9/11. But what people fail to read is Rev. Wright's closing statement which are requoted below for emphasis:

    "Violence begets violence. Hatred begets hatred. And terrorism begets terrorism. A white ambassador said that y'all, not a black militant. Not a reverend who preaches about racism. An ambassador whose eyes are wide open and who is trying to get us to wake up and move away from this dangerous precipice upon which we are now poised. The ambassador said the people we have wounded don't have the military capability we have. But they do have individuals who are willing to die and take thousands with them. And we need to come to grips with that."
    In effect, Rev. Wright was echoing the exact same sentiments others have espoused cautioning against military (or political) intervention using actions that do more harm than good in those regions of the world where we have long feared the spread of terrorist aggression much as this nation once feared the spread of Communism. In essence, what Rev. Wright was trying to say is if America doesn't pay very close attention to the decisions it makes regarding foreign affairs in the Middle-East, any and all "wrong-headed, aggressive military actions" we take will only cause more harm than good and we could very well face serious backlash from the very people we claim to be helping. But if you stop at "America's chickens are coming home to roost," and allow your bigotry and partisanship blind you to what's really taking place abroad, it's real easy to miss his message of "take caustion and tread lightly, but make smart decisions when making foreign policy decisions concerning the Middle-East".

    And that's all I'm going to say about that. On the issue of the President's speech, I think he did very well. Still, for those who disagree with his decision to take this bold step, let me ask you this:

    As a nation who speaks so highly of sound moral values, claims to be staunce defenders for the preservation of human life, believes strongly in democracy, cautions against tyranny and oppressive dictators and supports the right for a nation's people to bear arms in defense against such oppression, how then can you denounce the actions President Obama has taken?
    Think long and hard about that...
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 03-29-11 at 01:29 PM.

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    Re: The President's Speech on Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Ah X.

    I'm not saying the critisism is invalid or whatever it is you're arguing.

    The issue is.

    Had he done nothing.

    People would have bitched.

    He's done something.

    People have bitched.

    That's my point.
    So when do we go help the people of Darfur? Syria? Rwanda? Iran? Ivory Coast?

    Why are Libyans so special?

    He pussy-footed around the issue. He knows what has to be done, but he's scared of following Bush's footsteps, which he's done since the day he took office, and now he has no idea what to do?

    He's finding out the world is a big, mean place, not the kumbaya acid trip his liberalism wants it to be.

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    Re: The President's Speech on Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Ah X.

    I'm not saying the critisism is invalid or whatever it is you're arguing.

    The issue is.

    Had he done nothing.

    People would have bitched.

    He's done something.

    People have bitched.

    That's my point.
    Of course, as I just said, that would be true of any president. Bitching about the bitching is dismissive of anything potentially valid within...well...the bitching.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
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    Re: The President's Speech on Libya

    what i still don't understand is the doctrine being followed

    we have established a current administration precedent, by aiding the opposition to the government of libya
    would we do the same if the masses of saudi arabia wanted a new, less repressive government
    i'm thinking 'no'

    one poster took exception to these statements of Obama's former pastor:
    "We bombed Grenada and killed innocent civilians, babies, non-military personnel.

    "We bombed the black civilian community of Panama with stealth bombers and killed unarmed teenage and toddlers, pregnant mothers and hard working fathers.

    "We bombed Qaddafi's home, and killed his child. Blessed are they who bash your children's head against the rock.

    "We bombed Iraq. We killed unarmed civilians trying to make a living. We bombed a plant in Sudan to pay back for the attack on our embassy, killed hundreds of hard working people, mothers and fathers who left home to go that day not knowing that they'd never get back home.

    "We bombed Hiroshima. We bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon and we never batted an eye.

    "Kids playing in the playground. Mothers picking up children after school. Civilians, not soldiers, people just trying to make it day by day.

    "We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff that we have done overseas is now brought right back into our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost.

    "Violence begets violence. Hatred begets hatred. And terrorism begets terrorism. A white ambassador said that y'all, not a black militant. Not a reverend who preaches about racism. An ambassador whose eyes are wide open and who is trying to get us to wake up and move away from this dangerous precipice upon which we are now poised. The ambassador said the people we have wounded don't have the military capability we have. But they do have individuals who are willing to die and take thousands with them. And we need to come to grips with that."
    what about those statements is found to be in error?
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: The President's Speech on Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    Bringing up his pastor on this particular issue is relevant and valid?
    Since his pastor, and 0bama himself have stated that interventions such as the President is conducting in Libya today are the reason we are "hated" across the world.

    Any of this ringing a memory bell?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    Referring to him as "candidate" is valid? (Also, I didn't realize that the whole voting process of him getting elected was in question...unless you are a birther or something.)
    Yes, Candidate 0bama would have lots of problems with President 0bama's actions in Libya.

    That is absolutely relevant.

    I have no idea what you mean by the "whole voting process" and the birther nonsense.
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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    Re: The President's Speech on Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    So when do we go help the people of Darfur? Syria? Rwanda? Iran? Ivory Coast?

    Why are Libyans so special?

    He pussy-footed around the issue. He knows what has to be done, but he's scared of following Bush's footsteps, which he's done since the day he took office, and now he has no idea what to do?

    He's finding out the world is a big, mean place, not the kumbaya acid trip his liberalism wants it to be.
    You've missed the mark, my friend. Bush Sr understood the consequence of overstepping his U.N. mandate when he sent troops to liberate Kuwait. He knew that invading Iraq was not his job despite the atrocities Saddam bestowed upon his people. But it wasn't his place to take him out Personally, I believe his son overstepped his bounds, but I don't think anyone can deny that what ultimately happened in Iraq with U.S. intervention was exactly what the Ambassador Rev. Wright quoted warned us about - that our foreign policy in the Middle-East could lead to a backlash from terrorist who don't care who they take with them when they die.

    For my take, I am glad to see a President unwilling to compromise America's priciples and step on our values for personal gain, power and glory. I'd much rather see an American President muster the courage to go to the world-at-large, state his case for rendering aid to a defenseless people, and aiding its nationals thereby providing them the chance to instill democracy in their country for themselves than to standby proclaiming to be a nation of such high virtue but do nothing to help. That's just not who we are as a nation. What makes this situation any different from what's happened or happening in Egypt, Syria, Tunisia, Saudia Arabia, Iran? As I said in a another thread, it's about the slaughter of innocent lives by a people's government which is suppose to protect them, not kill them in-mass, defenseless. (Does it also help to be an American ally and not a known enemy? You betcha )
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 03-29-11 at 01:27 PM.

  8. #28
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    Re: The President's Speech on Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    Honestly, I don't think there is a single decision he could have made that wouldn't have resulted in plenty of criticism.
    As is the case for all Presidents.

    My criticisms are valid. I had lots of valid criticisms about Iraq and Afghanistan as well.
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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    Re: The President's Speech on Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Not at all.

    But he was ****ed if he did, and was ****ed if he didn't.
    For some people that might be true. I don't believe that's the case in general.

    I support the President on Libya and am willing to give him plenty of room to find his feet.

    There is nothing wrong with having criticisms with a Presidents policies as long as they are valid. Just ask Hillary.
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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    Re: The President's Speech on Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    I thought the speech was effective in communicating the reasons for the intervention in Libya, the limits on that intervention and perhaps most important how Obama views American leadership within the world.

    “Contrary to the claims of some, American leadership is not simply a matter of going it alone and bearing all of the burden ourselves. Real leadership creates the conditions and coalitions for others to step up as well; to work with allies and partners so that they bear their share of the burden and pay their share of the costs; and to see that the principles of justice and human dignity are upheld by all.”

    — President Barack H. Obama, speech to the nation, March 28, 2011
    0bama seems to have forgotten there was a coalition in both Iraq and Afghanistan and the US did not act alone.

    He isn't the only one this would be news to. There are plenty of people on this website who don't seem to know either.
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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