Page 8 of 10 FirstFirst ... 678910 LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 91

Thread: China 'to overtake US on science' in two years

  1. #71
    Bohemian Revolutionary
    Demon of Light's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    03-07-17 @ 12:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,095

    Re: China 'to overtake US on science' in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    The old "having been to China" speal again... How well do you UNDERSTAND China? How well do you know the language? How much have you travelled there and lived there and been off the beaten path. Have you only seen what the government wants you to see or have you seen other elements of the country. I have lived there, speak the language as well as can read it. If you know what was being taught in their classrooms about the rest of us, you would have more reason for concern. If you knew what was being taught about their own history and how it relates to their destiny today, you would have more reason for concern. However, most people don't want to hear that and by the time they figure it out, it will be too late.
    You know so many people can criticize China's government without fear-mongering about the Chinese people in general. Despite constantly insisting that you are only criticizing the government you say things clearly indicating you see the Chinese people in general as a problem.

    And how much longer are we going to put up with crap like this from China?
    The problem I have with these Western news articles is they never seem to tell the whole story. So many times a news article will say a person was arrested "by China" for "calling for reform and democracy" only to find one or both of those claims are blatantly misleading. In this case going off those individuals I have looked at, it appears this was about people calling for the overthrow of the government. What I have never seen is a case where someone is arrested just for calling for reform and democracy. Hell, things like that will even be published in major news outlets.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    And we are supposed to believe in this "peaceful rise" of China when they constantly threaten the 23 million people of the free island country of Taiwan?
    Taiwan is Chinese territory so it is only natural for them to threaten force to retake it. However, China has not threatened the people of Taiwan anymore than the threat of war threatens them.

    Viet Nam is VERY concerned. China has been encoraching on their EEZ and claims a significant amount of maritime territory that rightfully belongs to Viet Nam.
    I find you willing to defend any country's claim over China's even when you should have just as much of a problem, in fact sometimes more, with their politics. As far as Vietnam being concerned, they have been hostile towards China for some time so it makes perfect sense.

    Similarly, there have been encroachments by China on the territorial waters of South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, the Philippines and even Indonesia. All of these states are concerned with the prospect of China's rise militarily and what it means for their own security.
    Taiwan has no basis to claim an encroachment on its territorial waters because it remains legally a province of China even by its own laws. Aside from that what you are talking about from what I can tell is basically disputed waters.

    All of them have serious reservations, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. South Korea was the one holdout for a while, but events over the past year (the sinking of a South Korean naval vessel by the PRCs satellite in North Korea and multiple encroachments on ROK territorial waters by PRC vessels among them) as well as the dispute over the historical kingdom of Goguryo and Balhae have caused considerable concern in South Korea.
    What you are talking about, especially the garbage about North Korea, does not present a serious problem for ties between South Korean and China nor do I think it has any significant influence over public attitudes. While certainly most countries in the region have reservations about another country becoming more powerful militarily from what I can tell their attitude is not serious in most cases.

    You haven't met anyone from China in person yet you claim to understand them so well... Let me remember this fact when you try to convince us that you understand the Chinese so well. You have no basis for knowledge in this area. I have heard college lectures (that I was not supposed to hear) regarding China's relations with other countries. I have seen their response to every little slight. I have seen their lies regarding the U.S. when the U.S. accidently bombed their embassy and saw first hand the anti-U.S. demonstrations. I remember the anti-Japan demonstrations a few years ago after China lost the Asian Cup Final to China. You really do NOT understand what is going on over there. You have no credibility on this WHATSOEVER!!!
    The person who claims on one hand to only be criticizing the government but then clearly attacks the Chinese people as a whole has a lot less credibility. I am at least being honest about where I stand. What I am saying is that I have seen no indication of the kind of picture you are painting. Certainly there are some negative attitudes towards some countries, particularly towards their governments, but the way you talk about it is just obvious hyperbole from what I have seen. You can say as much as you like that it is because I am uneducated, but I think the real intellectual failing here is with you as you seem to only be capable of seeing things through a Sinophobic spectrum while disregarding all evidence suggesting your fears are inflated.

    One can hardly expect attitudes to be entirely positive between any two countries. Look at how the European members of this forum interact with American members. You will find there is plenty of hostility there even though it would seem to be without any serious basis.

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Do you realize...China will have two carriers by 2015.

    China is looking at power projection. With 2 carriers, they'll be able to have one deployed continuously (almost), and in an emergency, maybe both. I see their advantage as mainly political. Once they have them in service, expect to see them in the Indian Ocean, Persian Gulf and operating around Africa. The goal is to show third world nations that the US isn't the only one with carriers and capable aircraft.
    Oh no! Two carriers! Why, whatever shall we do with those two 65,000 ton carriers threatening our ten 100,000 ton carriers!? We are so screwed!

    Against a US carrier, they don't add up to much, but against a nation without much in the way of aircraft, they provide a striking force. Try the Spratly Islands. Major oil field and they are claimed by China, Vietnam, Philippines and Indonesia. Having a carrier around helps with keeping them when you move in the occupation forces and start drilling a well head and a pipeline to China.
    China isn't going to start a war to take control of the islands. Of course, any situation where military power is being increased in a region creates the potential for conflict so the probability of war will increase.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

  2. #72
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: China 'to overtake US on science' in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    You know so many people can criticize China's government without fear-mongering about the Chinese people in general. Despite constantly insisting that you are only criticizing the government you say things clearly indicating you see the Chinese people in general as a problem.
    If you would read my post more clearly, I was not criticizing the people. However, because I know the language and have gone off the beaten path, seen what is in the media and heard what is taught in their classrooms, I have a bit of a better understanding of exactly how their government sees us than most others do...

    The problem I have with these Western news articles is they never seem to tell the whole story. So many times a news article will say a person was arrested "by China" for "calling for reform and democracy" only to find one or both of those claims are blatantly misleading. In this case going off those individuals I have looked at, it appears this was about people calling for the overthrow of the government. What I have never seen is a case where someone is arrested just for calling for reform and democracy. Hell, things like that will even be published in major news outlets.
    You always seem to take the side of the dictators in Beijing. What is it about freedom that you hate so much?

    Taiwan is Chinese territory so it is only natural for them to threaten force to retake it. However, China has not threatened the people of Taiwan anymore than the threat of war threatens them.
    No, Taiwan is NOT Chinese territory. Once again, you don't understand international law. I have already tried to teach you some of the basics of it, but you aren't very receptical to education. The PRC has never signed a treaty by which it gained sovereign right and title to Taiwan. Taiwan belongs to the 23 million people of the island, NOT the dictators in Beijing. Furthermore, have you ever heard other "anti-secession (sic) Act)

    I find you willing to defend any country's claim over China's even when you should have just as much of a problem, in fact sometimes more, with their politics. As far as Vietnam being concerned, they have been hostile towards China for some time so it makes perfect sense.
    Do you know WHY Viet Nam has been hostile towards China for some time?

    Taiwan has no basis to claim an encroachment on its territorial waters because it remains legally a province of China even by its own laws. Aside from that what you are talking about from what I can tell is basically disputed waters.
    You mean the law of the R.O.C., which was also imposed on the people of Taiwan illegally by Chiang Kai shek... you mean THAT law? Just FYI, the vast majority of people in Taiwan take that 'law' with a grain of salt.

    What you are talking about, especially the garbage about North Korea, does not present a serious problem for ties between South Korean and China nor do I think it has any significant influence over public attitudes. While certainly most countries in the region have reservations about another country becoming more powerful militarily from what I can tell their attitude is not serious in most cases.
    You haven't heard about the recent encorachments of South Korean territorial waters by PRC vessels? You don't know about the controversies over the history of Goguryo and Balhae? And you are supposed to be an authority in the region? And the attitude of many people in this region is concern about China's growing military... this is true in Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Viet Nam and many other states in the region...

    The person who claims on one hand to only be criticizing the government but then clearly attacks the Chinese people as a whole has a lot less credibility. I am at least being honest about where I stand. What I am saying is that I have seen no indication of the kind of picture you are painting. Certainly there are some negative attitudes towards some countries, particularly towards their governments, but the way you talk about it is just obvious hyperbole from what I have seen. You can say as much as you like that it is because I am uneducated, but I think the real intellectual failing here is with you as you seem to only be capable of seeing things through a Sinophobic spectrum while disregarding all evidence suggesting your fears are inflated.
    Again, I am not anti-Chinese, but I call it as I see it. I have a much longer history in this region and thus have a much better understanding of the region than you clearly do. I speak and read three of the most important languages of the Pacific-Asia region, so it enables me to get a better sense of what is happening here than you do? What credibility do you have? You don't speak the language and you haven't immersed yourself into the region. I am also not Sino-phobic. I spent two years living in the country and have travelled extensively in it. I speak Mandarin and can read traditional and simplified Chinese and have married an ethnic-Han/Taiwanese wife. You pull out the "sino-phobe" card on me? You are on VERY thin ice on this one boy...

    One can hardly expect attitudes to be entirely positive between any two countries. Look at how the European members of this forum interact with American members. You will find there is plenty of hostility there even though it would seem to be without any serious basis.
    Oh,we have fun with PeteEu and Aquablue and others. They also come from a completely different mindset than the Chinese. Their basic values, despite our differences of opinion, are different from China. They come from open, democratic traditions. Not the Chinese. Do you even know what the Chinese name for China means? It actually is pretty important in their traditional mindset,something that still exists to some extent today. Their traditional methods of handling international relations are also very different from the West. They do NOT have a tradition of equality of states as we do in the West. It is simply amazing that people here who do not understand China's history and culture can come on here and present themselves as sages and experts on the topic... Simply incredible...


    Oh no! Two carriers! Why, whatever shall we do with those two 65,000 ton carriers threatening our ten 100,000 ton carriers!? We are so screwed!



    China isn't going to start a war to take control of the islands. Of course, any situation where military power is being increased in a region creates the potential for conflict so the probability of war will increase.[/QUOTE]
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  3. #73
    Sage
    ric27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Last Seen
    06-15-17 @ 02:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,539

    Re: China 'to overtake US on science' in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post



    Oh no! Two carriers! Why, whatever shall we do with those two 65,000 ton carriers threatening our ten 100,000 ton carriers!? We are so screwed!



    China isn't going to start a war to take control of the islands. Of course, any situation where military power is being increased in a region creates the potential for conflict so the probability of war will increase.
    You are way over your head, dude....

    Getting back to basics

    China won't have any territorial ambitions vs. the US. What they do want to do is bring Taiwan back into the fold and establish themselves as the head honcho in Asia. The leading economy who calls the shots.

    China still thinks of itself as "The Middle Kingdom". Their rightful place is the center of the world as the first civilization and the center of culture. Everyone else is a barbarian and some are worse than others. Racism in this country, real and imagined, doesn't come close to racism in China. Asiatic people first, then Caucasians and finally Africans. Caucasians/Europeans only get the middle spot by default because they put Africans last.

    China has long felt humiliated and angered by western economic domination and their goal is to reverse that. Think the Japanese Greater-East-Asia-Co Prosperity-Sphere, but with China on the throne. They also have long memories and still maintain a deep antipathy to the Japanese for WWII atrocities.....You really can't blame them for that one.

    The Chinese have a long sense of history and they are working full steam to keep themselves from the position Japan found themselves in just before WWII, i.e. vulnerable to a blockade of vital resources. Their economy is going strong and they are now major users of oil, making them very vulnerable to interdiction of the sea lanes since most of the oil comes in by tanker.

    Consequently, count on China using whatever political, economic or military means they find available to limit our influence in the area, expand theirs and secure their resources. That is why, the Spratleys will become a major hotspot sooner than later.

    China is/will seek to weaken our willpower and ability to protect Taiwan. Their buildup of amphibious forces is aimed directly at Taiwan. Their theater missiles, cruise missiles and a large part of their aviation assets are geared to defeating naval and air forces that would prevent them from successfully invading Taiwan.

    The economic destruction of Taiwan is only of minor concern to the Chinese leadership. If Taiwan was eliminated as an economic rival it certainly wouldn't hurt their industry. First they work on our will and political fortitude. Will we be willing to sacrifice ships, men and aircraft to defend Taiwan? Especially if China first offers them status similar to Hong Kong? If they offered Taiwan a choice of war or peaceful inclusion into the greater China, limited self-government, etc., would the American people be willing to go to war with China because Taiwan said no? Not if it meant the loss of/or major damage to the 7th Fleet.
    Last edited by ric27; 03-31-11 at 11:42 AM.

  4. #74
    Bohemian Revolutionary
    Demon of Light's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    03-07-17 @ 12:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,095

    Re: China 'to overtake US on science' in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    If you would read my post more clearly, I was not criticizing the people. However, because I know the language and have gone off the beaten path, seen what is in the media and heard what is taught in their classrooms, I have a bit of a better understanding of exactly how their government sees us than most others do...
    Except you were clearly doing more than criticizing the government and when you make comments like this:

    They also come from a completely different mindset than the Chinese. Their basic values, despite our differences of opinion, are different from China. They come from open, democratic traditions. Not the Chinese. Do you even know what the Chinese name for China means? It actually is pretty important in their traditional mindset,something that still exists to some extent today.
    You remove any doubt about that.

    You always seem to take the side of the dictators in Beijing. What is it about freedom that you hate so much?
    What I do is take the side of reason and honesty. Calling them dictators is an example of a statement that is lacking in reason and honesty. Saying people are arrested for "promoting democracy" in China is also dishonest. Explaining what the real issue is does not amount to taking sides.

    No, Taiwan is NOT Chinese territory. Once again, you don't understand international law. I have already tried to teach you some of the basics of it, but you aren't very receptical to education. The PRC has never signed a treaty by which it gained sovereign right and title to Taiwan. Taiwan belongs to the 23 million people of the island, NOT the dictators in Beijing. Furthermore, have you ever heard other "anti-secession (sic) Act)
    Actually, I have given you a pretty basic argument in international law indicating that China did in fact sign a treaty that acknowledged Taiwan as Chinese territory. You just refuse to acknowledge it as such because it would destroy your entire argument.

    Do you know WHY Viet Nam has been hostile towards China for some time?
    How about you tell me what you think is the reason?

    You mean the law of the R.O.C., which was also imposed on the people of Taiwan illegally by Chiang Kai shek... you mean THAT law? Just FYI, the vast majority of people in Taiwan take that 'law' with a grain of salt.
    There was nothing illegal about it. Say as much as you like that the people of Taiwan do not like the law, it does not make a damn bit of difference with regards to what the law says.

    You haven't heard about the recent encorachments of South Korean territorial waters by PRC vessels? You don't know about the controversies over the history of Goguryo and Balhae? And you are supposed to be an authority in the region?
    Where did you get that I do not know about these issues? I said I do not see any indication that it has caused any serious change in attitudes.

    And the attitude of many people in this region is concern about China's growing military... this is true in Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Viet Nam and many other states in the region..
    .

    I never said there was not concern. Like I said, any country becoming more powerful creates concern.

    Again, I am not anti-Chinese, but I call it as I see it. I have a much longer history in this region and thus have a much better understanding of the region than you clearly do. I speak and read three of the most important languages of the Pacific-Asia region, so it enables me to get a better sense of what is happening here than you do? What credibility do you have? You don't speak the language and you haven't immersed yourself into the region. I am also not Sino-phobic. I spent two years living in the country and have travelled extensively in it. I speak Mandarin and can read traditional and simplified Chinese and have married an ethnic-Han/Taiwanese wife. You pull out the "sino-phobe" card on me? You are on VERY thin ice on this one boy...
    I pull it out because it applies. No amount of "I married a yellow woman!" and "I can speak Chinese!" is going to take away from the comments you have made that are clearly about invoking fear with regards to the Chinese people in general. Just because you consider certain Chinese people exceptions (read: people who are more like your fellow white folk) does not mean anything.

    Their traditional methods of handling international relations are also very different from the West. They do NOT have a tradition of equality of states as we do in the West.
    We have a tradition of "equality of states" in the West? This is news to me!

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    You are way over your head, dude....

    Getting back to basics

    China won't have any territorial ambitions vs. the US. What they do want to do is bring Taiwan back into the fold and establish themselves as the head honcho in Asia. The leading economy who calls the shots.

    China still thinks of itself as "The Middle Kingdom". Their rightful place is the center of the world as the first civilization and the center of culture. Everyone else is a barbarian and some are worse than others. Racism in this country, real and imagined, doesn't come close to racism in China. Asiatic people first, then Caucasians and finally Africans. Caucasians/Europeans only get the middle spot by default because they put Africans last.

    China has long felt humiliated and angered by western economic domination and their goal is to reverse that. Think the Japanese Greater-East-Asia-Co Prosperity-Sphere, but with China on the throne. They also have long memories and still maintain a deep antipathy to the Japanese for WWII atrocities.....You really can't blame them for that one.

    The Chinese have a long sense of history and they are working full steam to keep themselves from the position Japan found themselves in just before WWII, i.e. vulnerable to a blockade of vital resources. Their economy is going strong and they are now major users of oil, making them very vulnerable to interdiction of the sea lanes since most of the oil comes in by tanker.

    Consequently, count on China using whatever political, economic or military means they find available to limit our influence in the area, expand theirs and secure their resources. That is why, the Spratleys will become a major hotspot sooner than later.

    China is/will seek to weaken our willpower and ability to protect Taiwan. Their buildup of amphibious forces is aimed directly at Taiwan. Their theater missiles, cruise missiles and a large part of their aviation assets are geared to defeating naval and air forces that would prevent them from successfully invading Taiwan.

    The economic destruction of Taiwan is only of minor concern to the Chinese leadership. If Taiwan was eliminated as an economic rival it certainly wouldn't hurt their industry. First they work on our will and political fortitude. Will we be willing to sacrifice ships, men and aircraft to defend Taiwan? Especially if China first offers them status similar to Hong Kong? If they offered Taiwan a choice of war or peaceful inclusion into the greater China, limited self-government, etc., would the American people be willing to go to war with China because Taiwan said no? Not if it meant the loss of/or major damage to the 7th Fleet.
    Countries typically pursue power to whatever extent they can pursue it. I am not exactly sure what you are trying to say here, though. China is not building up its military simply to retake Taiwan. In fact, claims that their military power is in any significant disproportionate manner geared towards Taiwan just amounts to Sinophobic propaganda. Why shouldn't China build up its military given the buildup of other countries in the region and powers like the United States? India could have as many as three aircraft carriers by 2015 so wouldn't China be remiss to not build up its military forces as well?

    Were Japan to modify its constitution to allow a major build-up then China would have yet another reason to increase its power. U.S. containment actions like its efforts to bring Australia, India, and Japan together with it against China only provide more incentive for a military buildup. There are countless reasons for China to build up its military strength, including the growing presence of Chinese citizens and businesses in Africa, so your fixation on Taiwan is a bit misplaced.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

  5. #75
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: China 'to overtake US on science' in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    Except you were clearly doing more than criticizing the government and when you make comments like this:
    You remove any doubt about that.
    You evidently don't know me very well...

    What I do is take the side of reason and honesty. Calling them dictators is an example of a statement that is lacking in reason and honesty. Saying people are arrested for "promoting democracy" in China is also dishonest. Explaining what the real issue is does not amount to taking sides.
    "Reason" doesn't mean very much when you don't know the facts and understand what you are talking about. People have been arrested for promoting democracy and human rights in China. People have been arrested for exercising their religious faith feacefully and in accordance with the Chinese constitution and for advocating its free practice. You seem to ignore these facts because they are inconvenient to you.

    Actually, I have given you a pretty basic argument in international law indicating that China did in fact sign a treaty that acknowledged Taiwan as Chinese territory. You just refuse to acknowledge it as such because it would destroy your entire argument.
    Something you don't understand very well as you showed several times that you don't understand the difference between an armistice and a treaty. Take a basic course in international law sometime and come back to me. You have shown repeatedly that you don't know under which mechanisms in international law territory may be transferred from one state to another state. I explained it to you. You are not very open to instruction.

    How about you tell me what you think is the reason?
    I know what the reason is. Obviously you don't know why the Vietnamese hate the Chinese so much.

    There was nothing illegal about it. Say as much as you like that the people of Taiwan do not like the law, it does not make a damn bit of difference with regards to what the law says.
    There was nothing legal about the ROC annexation of Taiwan. Actually, if you look at the KMTs own laws, they never passed a law changing the borders of the ROC in accordance with their own Constitition. As you can't read Chinese, I don't suspect you know very much about that. Obviously, you don't know the difference between occupation and sovereignty.

    Where did you get that I do not know about these issues? I said I do not see any indication that it has caused any serious change in attitudes.
    I would say there is a problem with your vision if that is the case.

    I never said there was not concern. Like I said, any country becoming more powerful creates concern.
    Especially when that nation claims territory and territorial waters of a large number of its neighboring states and has used its military to encorach on the territorial waters of several of its neighbors, as has already been referenced.

    I pull it out because it applies. No amount of "I married a yellow woman!" and "I can speak Chinese!" is going to take away from the comments you have made that are clearly about invoking fear with regards to the Chinese people in general. Just because you consider certain Chinese people exceptions (read: people who are more like your fellow white folk) does not mean anything.
    Ohh... your race card again. Shove it before you embarass yourself further...

    We have a tradition of "equality of states" in the West? This is news to me!
    If you had taken basic classes in international relations, you would understand the severe difference in the evolution of international relations in the West and in the East. But go on, embarass yourself further. Perhaps you would even understand why the Emperor Qianlong-Long MacCartney incident turned out the way it did?

    Countries typically pursue power to whatever extent they can pursue it. I am not exactly sure what you are trying to say here, though. China is not building up its military simply to retake Taiwan. In fact, claims that their military power is in any significant disproportionate manner geared towards Taiwan just amounts to Sinophobic propaganda. Why shouldn't China build up its military given the buildup of other countries in the region and powers like the United States? India could have as many as three aircraft carriers by 2015 so wouldn't China be remiss to not build up its military forces as well?
    Ohh... Sinophobic again... Ummm, the Chinese have more than 1000 missiles pointed at us. They conduct military drills designed for a campaign against Taiwan. They draw up military plans for the purpose of countering assets that may come in to defend Taiwan. They pass an anti-secession law against Taiwan. They constantly use rhetoric essentially saying if Taiwan strays, they will use their miltary to take us over. But in your world, pointing out those FACTS is Sinophobia. India's buildup has legitimate defensive purposes. You don't see India claiming territory that belongs to multiple neighbors. Nor does India use its weight against its neighbors, but rather seeks to counter another rather large rival, Pakistan, one who recived significant Chinese aid and assistance.

    Were Japan to modify its constitution to allow a major build-up then China would have yet another reason to increase its power. U.S. containment actions like its efforts to bring Australia, India, and Japan together with it against China only provide more incentive for a military buildup. There are countless reasons for China to build up its military strength, including the growing presence of Chinese citizens and businesses in Africa, so your fixation on Taiwan is a bit misplaced.
    Why does China have the 'right' to build up its military to protect its business interests in Africa. And if you hadn't noted, the actions of the US to work with other DEMOCRACIES in the region regarding China is a RESPONSE to Chinese actions. The desire of many in Japan to amend its Constitution is in RESPONSE to China's buildup. And again, as refers to Taiwan, you obviously don't know what they are saying... oh, that's right... you can't understand the language....

    learn the language, learn some history, learn some basic international law and then come back to play, ok???
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  6. #76
    Bohemian Revolutionary
    Demon of Light's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    03-07-17 @ 12:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,095

    Re: China 'to overtake US on science' in two years

    Bored of you so I am just going to correct a few points here.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Ummm, the Chinese have more than 1000 missiles pointed at us.
    No, actually they don't. China does have some thousand or so short- to medium-range ballistic missiles, but that is their entire arsenal and it is not all aimed at Taiwan. It is divided between the seven military regions, which does mean that hundreds of ballistic missiles would probably be in range of Taiwan. That does not mean they are aimed at Taiwan, only that they could be aimed at Taiwan.

    Why does China have the 'right' to build up its military to protect its business interests in Africa.
    Well, any country has the right to build up its defensive systems and any country has a right to protect its citizens overseas. I find it weird that you think India has this right and legitimate defensive purposes but somehow China cannot have either.

    The desire of many in Japan to amend its Constitution is in RESPONSE to China's buildup.
    Oh now that's bull****. If you actually believe that then this suggests you do not even understand certain basic facts about the geopolitics of the region.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

  7. #77
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: China 'to overtake US on science' in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    Bored of you so I am just going to correct a few points here.
    You mean you have no response for the rest of the points? You get schooled so your response is to declare boredom. What a child.

    No, actually they don't. China does have some thousand or so short- to medium-range ballistic missiles, but that is their entire arsenal and it is not all aimed at Taiwan. It is divided between the seven military regions, which does mean that hundreds of ballistic missiles would probably be in range of Taiwan. That does not mean they are aimed at Taiwan, only that they could be aimed at Taiwan.
    Actually, they do. The vast majority of the missiles are in military regions facing Taiwan and they are not long range.

    Well, any country has the right to build up its defensive systems and any country has a right to protect its citizens overseas. I find it weird that you think India has this right and legitimate defensive purposes but somehow China cannot have either.
    What right does China (or any other state, in fact) have to intervene military for its citizens in another state. In fact, China has repeatedly stated that in no case does one state have the right to interfere in the internal affairs of other states -- though they have violated that very premise a number of times.

    Look, you can defend dictators, but I am going to call you on it.

    Oh now that's bull****. If you actually believe that then this suggests you do not even understand certain basic facts about the geopolitics of the region.
    You just have no clue, do you.... Yes, the ultra-nationalists have ALWAYS wanted to amend the constitution, but it had never been supported by a wide spectrum of the Japanese body politic. However, Chinese actions over the past few years in disputed islands and even in waters that are clearly Japanese has changed this from a fringe position in Japan to a far more mainstream one. If you actually understood internal Japanese political dynamics, you would understand this.

    As for the other points... I will accept your non-response as a concession...

    Now, as I advised, go out, learn more, learn some languages and learn some international law while you are at it... class dismissed...
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  8. #78
    Educating the Ignorant
    zimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:18 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    14,452
    Blog Entries
    12

    Re: China 'to overtake US on science' in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    This isn't really surprising, seeing as how China is investing its money in its people, in things like education, public transportation, internet, and so forth. How does the US expect to compete when we are going to be cutting education and not doing much about rising college tuition rates, it may soon be to the point where only a privileged few can actually afford a college education.



    Source.

    Edit: Also look here
    China ain't investing **** in its people if you look at the big picture. They are investing in themselves. Sitting down and actually learning. Person discipline, personal motivation to escape the **** holes they live in.

    We build huge schools, have wasteful classes on BS, and the Chinese knuckle down in crap schools.

    I've seen tests given to 8th grade kids in the late 1890's America, and my bet is kids today don't graduate with the knowledge they were EXPECTED to know back then at age 13. Stuff they learned in shacks for schools, and many ages of students in one room.

    We don't need to invest $$$$$$$$$$, we already "invest" too much. We need to be tougher, demand more, and cut out the crap to reduce our investment. How much does it cost to teach a kid math, science, English, geography and history?

    We need a renaissance of discipline and morality. That is why they're going to be kicking our asses... our teachers, parents and students are too lazy, too soft... they're pussies, and eventually we're gonna be ****ed because of it. It's no surprise immigrants are 400% likely to become millionaires here... they see opportunity everywhere, and too many natives are modeled after the Marxist Bitcher in Chief Obama... whine, whine, whine...

    We have the best post-secondary schools, and that's because they're private. It's time to get rid of the NEA, and the teacher's union should be busted. That'd be a good start.

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 04-01-11 at 08:27 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  9. #79
    Bohemian Revolutionary
    Demon of Light's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    03-07-17 @ 12:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,095

    Re: China 'to overtake US on science' in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Actually, they do. The vast majority of the missiles are in military regions facing Taiwan and they are not long range.
    Looking over more information it would be true to say a majority are within range of Taiwan, but not the vast majority. As far as long range, many are of a range that would also allow them to be used in attacks on Okinawa (something I am sure you understand is significant) and parts of South Korea such as Jeju, where the U.S. is building a naval base. They are also in range of the disputed islands in the East China Sea. As they are positioned these missiles could be deployed towards any of these targets and you can bet such scenarios are considered. In fact, even some its shorter-range missiles could be used on some the Ryukyu islands.

    What right does China (or any other state, in fact) have to intervene military for its citizens in another state. In fact, China has repeatedly stated that in no case does one state have the right to interfere in the internal affairs of other states -- though they have violated that very premise a number of times.
    If it is China's citizens who are threatened or harmed by a government it is well within rights to intervene regardless of how far away the country may be in comparison.

    You just have no clue, do you.... Yes, the ultra-nationalists have ALWAYS wanted to amend the constitution, but it had never been supported by a wide spectrum of the Japanese body politic. However, Chinese actions over the past few years in disputed islands and even in waters that are clearly Japanese has changed this from a fringe position in Japan to a far more mainstream one. If you actually understood internal Japanese political dynamics, you would understand this.
    What I understand is that you will blame anything and everything on China that you can possibly stretch or misconstrue to blame them. Rising Japanese nationalism is a big reason for changing attitudes and that has very little to do with China. It would certainly be true that China's rise may influence attitudes, but to suggest as you do that this is the primary cause or even a significant cause of attitudes towards Article 9 is just ridiculous.

    As for the other points... I will accept your non-response as a concession...
    My non-response is only an indication of how seriously I take you as a poster.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

  10. #80
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: China 'to overtake US on science' in two years

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    Looking over more information it would be true to say a majority are within range of Taiwan, but not the vast majority. As far as long range, many are of a range that would also allow them to be used in attacks on Okinawa (something I am sure you understand is significant) and parts of South Korea such as Jeju, where the U.S. is building a naval base. They are also in range of the disputed islands in the East China Sea. As they are positioned these missiles could be deployed towards any of these targets and you can bet such scenarios are considered. In fact, even some its shorter-range missiles could be used on some the Ryukyu islands.
    Once again showing me you know very little of the motivations of the Chinese government and their threats toward Taiwan.

    If it is China's citizens who are threatened or harmed by a government it is well within rights to intervene regardless of how far away the country may be in comparison.
    On what basis?

    What I understand is that you will blame anything and everything on China that you can possibly stretch or misconstrue to blame them. Rising Japanese nationalism is a big reason for changing attitudes and that has very little to do with China. It would certainly be true that China's rise may influence attitudes, but to suggest as you do that this is the primary cause or even a significant cause of attitudes towards Article 9 is just ridiculous.
    And one of the causes of rising Japanese nationalism is the perceived threat by China. Get with the program or read some Japanese newspapers sometimes.... oh that's right, you can't read Japanese... or Chinese...


    My non-response is only an indication of how seriously I take you as a poster.
    This coming from someone who doesn't even know basic principles of international law... You have been completely discredited in this and other threads... Learn some more, then come back...
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

Page 8 of 10 FirstFirst ... 678910 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •