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Thread: EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

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    Re: EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And the government did not mandate better gas mileage then last 30+ years either, and lets see what the market did with that.. oh yea NOTHING. Market forces are a crock and rarely work fast enough. Only reason the gasoline made car became popular was because it was cheap and easy to make. And it will stay that way until government impose high taxes on dirty fuels so that electrical or alternative fuel cars will become viable.
    I might be for that if the government spent the money on fixing the roads instead of pissing the money away.

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    Re: EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And the government did not mandate better gas mileage then last 30+ years either, and lets see what the market did with that.. oh yea NOTHING. Market forces are a crock and rarely work fast enough. Only reason the gasoline made car became popular was because it was cheap and easy to make. And it will stay that way until government impose high taxes on dirty fuels so that electrical or alternative fuel cars will become viable.

    Sounds like you enjoy having government tell you what you can and can not do, drive, eat, watch...etc...Sounds like a free life to you?


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    Re: EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

    Seriously misleading article. First of all, the UK did not sign up to this agreement. Secondly, all petrol and diesel cars will be removed not ALL cars full stop.
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    Re: EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Sounds like you enjoy having government tell you what you can and can not do, drive, eat, watch...etc...Sounds like a free life to you?


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    Re: EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Sounds like you enjoy having government tell you what you can and can not do, drive, eat, watch...etc...Sounds like a free life to you?


    j-mac
    So you would rather have the "free markets" dictate to you what to do.. like running cars that go 10 miles to the gallon, rather than have government provide regulations that makes it mandatory for all cars to have at least 70 miles a gallon? Which one do you think is looking out for you and not big oil companies and car companies? Not to mention you sound paranoid to say the least.
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    Re: EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

    Quote Originally Posted by The Preacher View Post
    I might be for that if the government spent the money on fixing the roads instead of pissing the money away.
    Oh that is a must of course. But the main point is that the consumer often does not know what is best for him or her, and especially the market does not know.. that is the companies. Like it or not, having petrol cars going 10 to 20 miles a gallon is idiotic in the 21st century and the car manufactures will not provide the cars in the US that can because of their ties to big oil. So it is up to the government to force the car companies, since the "free market" will never ever force the companies since they provide the product and if the only product they want to provide is crap, then that is what you get.

    It is ironic that Ford, GM and other car manufactures are up in arms over getting 32 miles a gallon in the US, and yet it is no problem for their European subsidaries to get 60+ miles a gallon already...... and that is because the EU has a mandatory minimum mileage which gets increased every 10 years or so. Even my 10 year old VW and SEAT beats the pants of most modern 2009+ US models in mileage.
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    Re: EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    So you would rather have the "free markets" dictate to you what to do.. like running cars that go 10 miles to the gallon, rather than have government provide regulations that makes it mandatory for all cars to have at least 70 miles a gallon? Which one do you think is looking out for you and not big oil companies and car companies? Not to mention you sound paranoid to say the least.
    Pete, you just flat out don't get it, do you?

    If cars that get 70mpg were that ****ing good, you wouldn't NEED the gov't to mandate them! The free market would! The price of gas goes up, the demand for more fuel efficient cars does as well.

    Where in that simple equation is the word "government?"

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    Re: EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    Pete, you just flat out don't get it, do you?

    If cars that get 70mpg were that ****ing good, you wouldn't NEED the gov't to mandate them! The free market would! The price of gas goes up, the demand for more fuel efficient cars does as well.

    Where in that simple equation is the word "government?"
    And here's what you guys never get.

    The free market does not lean towards "good." It leans towards "profitable." When it comes to environmental goals, the free market is often in direct opposition to those goals. Why? Because dirty is always cheaper. It's cheaper for Giant Chemical, Inc to just dump all of their waste in the nearest river. Meanwhile, Friendly Family Chemical, Inc, decides to properly store and dispose of that waste. Their costs are higher, they get undercut by Giant Chemical, and go out of business. Hooray, General Electric gets a cheaper supply of hydropetromonoxicilchemicalsoundingname. Hope you like children with fins.

    You're a libertarian. Love freedom and all. Do I have the freedom to pollute your land? Your air?

    Clean is more expensive. Therefore the free market will lean away from them. Ok, so eventually gas prices will rise to the point where an electric car is cheaper. How long will that take? How much damage will be caused in the meantime? If the price at the gas pump actually reflected the cost of the damage being done to future generations, it would already be too expensive. Instead, we're shoveling that cost onto our grandchildren. Your gasoline is artificially cheap because you're skipping out on the actual bill.
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    Re: EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Clean is more expensive. Therefore the free market will lean away from them. Ok, so eventually gas prices will rise to the point where an electric car is cheaper. How long will that take? How much damage will be caused in the meantime? If the price at the gas pump actually reflected the cost of the damage being done to future generations, it would already be too expensive. Instead, we're shoveling that cost onto our grandchildren. Your gasoline is artificially cheap because you're skipping out on the actual bill.
    And in 50 years, our grandchildren could be cursing us for mandating CFL bulbs and battery powered cars. They could be spending trillions of dollars cleaning up mercury wastes and digging up old batteries so they could be properly disposed of. Fifty years ago, people were promoting the wonder mineral asbestos. Today's wonder invention is oftentimes tomorrow's nightmare.

    Do you think the wonderful electric cars will haul furniture and groceries into the middle of these enlightened EU cities ??

    Actually, I would predict that the EU would be extinct well before gas vehicles.

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    Re: EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    Pete, you just flat out don't get it, do you?

    If cars that get 70mpg were that ****ing good, you wouldn't NEED the gov't to mandate them! The free market would! The price of gas goes up, the demand for more fuel efficient cars does as well.

    Where in that simple equation is the word "government?"
    And you dont ****ing get it. The only reason there is 70mpg cars is because of government regulation since there has been zero incentive the last 50+ years to do jack**** on gas mileage. Like it or not, the best thing for society in the short, medium and long term will ALWAYS be to get the most out of the least amount of oil, but the opposite is for both oil companies and car companies. The less they run per gallon the better for the oil companies, and the less money car companies have to use on R&D to make new engines that are more efficient.

    And that is how it has gone in the US. Cars have become bigger and bigger, with more cup holders and food placement areas, and bigger seats for bigger asses, but the mileage and performance has gone no where for 40 years. In fact the official average mileage per gallon has gone from 20 to 22 in 21 years.. WOW that is the free market for ya!

    If we had let it up to the "market" after the 1970s oil crisis, then we would be in the same boat as the US today on mileage. But no our politicians were wise to force through minimum standards and today Europeans benefit hugely from this.

    For example.. right now the gas price here is 1.30ish euro per litre.. that is abit under 5 dollars a US gallon. Now my 10 year old VW goes about 18 km on the litre, which is 68.4 km on a gallon, which is about 42 miles per gallon.. on a 10 year old car. Now according to your own government, the average US passenger car gets 22.6 miles per gallon. So that means that the average US car has use 2 gallons when I use one.. which means with the average US fuel price of 3.86 dollars per gallon, that an average American uses 7.72 dollars to go the approx same distance per gallon as I use my abit under 5 dollars..

    So I ask again.. who got the better deal here? And again, I say.. my car is 10 years old.. if I bought a modern car today, the mileage per gallon would be much improved.. especially if I bought a diesel.
    PeteEU

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