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Thread: EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

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    Re: EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

    If we don't have the battery power to economically create viable electric transportation for city commuters by 2050 I think there's something significantly wrong with our scientific community. Its one thing if this was a goal by 2015 or even 2020. But we're looking at FORTY years from now. Look how much progress has came with regards to batteries from 1990 to 2010. Seriously, I don't see what the big hubbub is on this one to be honest. Its a goal for FORTY years from now that in all honesty should be easily and economically doable.

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    Re: EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    If we don't have the battery power to economically create viable electric transportation for city commuters by 2050 I think there's something significantly wrong with our scientific community. Its one thing if this was a goal by 2015 or even 2020. But we're looking at FORTY years from now. Look how much progress has came with regards to batteries from 1990 to 2010. Seriously, I don't see what the big hubbub is on this one to be honest. Its a goal for FORTY years from now that in all honesty should be easily and economically doable.
    I think you're absolutely right. I'd go further, I not only believe it should be doable, I believe that by 2050 such batteries will be available and the idea of nasty, dirty internal combustion engines will be purely of historical interest, just as steam power is to us now. I look forward to buying a new electric coupé for my 88th birthday that year.
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    Re: EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I think you're absolutely right. I'd go further, I not only believe it should be doable, I believe that by 2050 such batteries will be available and the idea of nasty, dirty internal combustion engines will be purely of historical interest, just as steam power is to us now. I look forward to buying a new electric coupé for my 88th birthday that year.
    Now this I doubt. I think there are some things that are much farther off than cars from moving away from the internal combustion engine or from gas power in some form. Numerous military and industrial vehicles, aviation, and other such things. While I could see the technology being far improved in 40 years, I think its very plausible ICE and gas will still be around by then in some form or another. Its plausible that some sizable shift in technology would change that but its far less of a certainty than cars who have a very clear and obvious progression that's been visible with regards to the move away from standard ICE versions.

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    Re: EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazed View Post
    Electric Cars have at best been a red herring for those who INSIST that we are destroying our environment.

    They are not selling, they won't because people don't want them.......

    Now.....

    1) Do you own an electric car?
    2) Do you support Gov regulation mandating what an American can, or can't drive?
    I do want an electric car. I just bought a car 4 years ago or I'd be in the market. Also, I do not have the income currently. You can acquire an electric car for $33,000, which is not too bad. The upkeep is not unreasonable and they are quite fast since they weigh so much less. It also has a small generator in it so that you can travel past the original charge (250 miles?).

    We are so far behind the curve we can't mandate anything currently. However, Obama has taken a step recently:

    Obama Goal to Cut Oil Imports Is Well Within Reach - ABC News
    When President Obama called for reducing the nation's oil imports by one-third by 2025 in a speech Wednesday, he echoed similar goals — still unfulfilled — set by every president since Richard Nixon.
    Not every vehicle can be electric, nor should they all be. However, once we begin to manufacture more electric cars and less fuel-based vehicles, the prices will even out.

    Why would you be against these measures?
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Cities in Europe generally have several hundred years of history going on, in streets clogged with far too much traffic they were never designed for. Transit times in London, for example, have gone down in the last hundred years. Having a "congestion zone" with a tax for using the city centre has helped a little, but an outright ban on fossil fuel cars will have many benefits for everyone from drivers to people who like to breathe.
    Yes, I read your argument the last time you posted it. I'm sorry, but it still doesn't make much sense. The assumptions I'm supposed to believe is that one, breathing in england is a problem, and two, that congestion zone issues can only be solved by banning of outlets by the government. I hate to inform you but neither of those two assumptions are true.

    There is no right to drive, so there is no loss of liberty.
    Liberty has to do with doing what you wish. Rights have nothing to do with liberty. Saying that however, something can't be a right if it against liberty. The fact is a good government that actually is for the people stands by their peoples liberty and does not dicate what they want on society.

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    Re: EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    So you are saying, that a government that stands up to big business and says "stuff you" and forces regulation that improves mileage and many other things for the average citizen is not brave? In the US it would be the right thing to do but it would be political suicide, and hence brave. I would think that any government that improves the lives of its citizens despite certain powerful aspects of society saying no, is brave as hell to even try so.
    Standing up to big business is not bravery. How many people do you know that actually support big business to people that don't. To go into it as if people support big business and therefore its a risk is kind of dishonest on your part. I might support big business and business in general but I stand pretty much alone.

    Free speech.. suck it up. I am 100% correct. Your political establishment is in the pockets of big business that in no way what so ever would want better mileage or regulation that benefits consumers. Hell they are fighting to get rid of the EPA and other regulators, just so they can screw over the population even more.
    I hate to sound predictable(though I already been doing that the entire time) but gas mileage is a market force with or without government.

    Also the EPA is not saving the world and the world would go on just fine without it. I'm all for killing off the EPA.

    LOL you seriously live on another planet then. No one is forcing you not to have a gas guzzling truck.. you just have to pay top dollar to have one, because you with your arrogance and selfishness are contributing relatively more to pollution, road damage and so on. Not to mention that people like you are one of the main reasons that the US has gone from 16 miles per gallon average mileage to 22 miles per gallon in 30+ years.... free market my ass.
    People buy what they want. If people want big trucks that IS the free market at work. As for road damage meh, that is a different topic, but good for you for bringing up. Everyone pays for the roads if they work. Driving is not a requirement which it would have to be if you are going to tax based on the damage they do to the road. I'm going to assume that is not what you want.

    Also much research would not even happen if it was not for government funding in one way or another. The US would never have gone to the moon if it was not for government funding. The Internet would not be around if it was not for government funding. The list goes on and on.
    I see no problem with that. The moon is not interesting and the internet is a waste of time.

    Btw, you could of used medical research and got a bigger bang for your buck. Though the answer would still be meh.

    The point is that in Europe in the late 1970s the politicians decided after one of the worst oil crisis ever, that European countries would not be hit as hard again. Hence they put in mandatory mileage requirements and have raised them year after year. Sure the car companies complained and still do, but if they want to sell cars in Europe, then they need to innovate and improve their cars. No way in HELL they would have done that on their own with 20 dollar a barrel oil or even 100 dollar a barrel oil. The profit margins on providing ****ty low mileage cars would be too great.
    Like I said earlier in this post, car mileage is market force and would still go up without government as people would demand it and the businesses would want to get more sales regardless if government is in the market or not. What your argument should really be saying is the improvement would be slower, not that it wouldn't exist.

    I am very glad that my politicians said "stuff you" to the oil and car companies and that now my 10 year old VW goes double the average mileage of the average modern day American car. It saves me a ton of money every year... and that is what it is all about.. not how many cup holders or people with fat asses that can be in a car or if the rims look cool or not.
    So its about you. Kind of knew that already but thanks for saying it outright.

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    Re: EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Standing up to big business is not bravery. How many people do you know that actually support big business to people that don't. To go into it as if people support big business and therefore its a risk is kind of dishonest on your part. I might support big business and business in general but I stand pretty much alone.
    Pretty much every US politician supports big business over the people. Just look at the last 40 years of legislation.. time and time again the big business have gotten their legislation proposals pushed through.. GE and Exxon paying 0 dollars in taxes is just one of many many examples.

    I hate to sound predictable(though I already been doing that the entire time) but gas mileage is a market force with or without government.
    Yes, but the market has ONLY provided ****ty gas mileage so far in the US and hence the consumer is getting hit hard with high gas prices. If the government had the balls to go in and mandate European style gas mileage standard, the US consumer would be much better off now. As it stands now, the European consumer with "high" European gas prices is far better off than the American consumer when it comes to going to the gas pump.

    Also the EPA is not saving the world and the world would go on just fine without it. I'm all for killing off the EPA.
    So who would bust the big polluters? The EPA might not be doing its job good enough, but that is no reason to get rid of the only agency that stands between having 2 headed babies and not. Like it or not, if Big business could get away with it, then they would pollute like no tomorrow.. look at China or Russia for god sake.

    People buy what they want. If people want big trucks that IS the free market at work. As for road damage meh, that is a different topic, but good for you for bringing up. Everyone pays for the roads if they work. Driving is not a requirement which it would have to be if you are going to tax based on the damage they do to the road. I'm going to assume that is not what you want.
    Yes it is up to the individual if he or she wants a big truck. What I am saying is it should be much more expensive for he/she to own such a truck rather than a fuel efficient car. Of course people who absolutely need a truck for work should be excempt some how, but there is no reason for a person in LA or a major US city to drive around in a freaking truck unless it is related to his/her job.

    I see no problem with that. The moon is not interesting and the internet is a waste of time.
    ...

    Btw, you could of used medical research and got a bigger bang for your buck. Though the answer would still be meh.
    US pharma uses more on advertising than on R&D. And yes their R&D is mostly funded by government grants.. as is the military industry and much more. Is that also a big "meah"?

    Like I said earlier in this post, car mileage is market force and would still go up without government as people would demand it and the businesses would want to get more sales regardless if government is in the market or not. What your argument should really be saying is the improvement would be slower, not that it wouldn't exist.
    And as I said, the market forces have been going on in the US for the last 40 years and mileage has barely gone up. Why? Because people are ignorant and only think short term. That means when oil does go up, then they have a car that looks cool, has 10 cup holders and can hold 3 average Americans (6 normal human beings) but only goes 20 miles to the gallon if they lucky and then they start complaining about wanting better mileage, but the US car maker cant provide it fast enough. That is why a government mandated minimum mileage standard (not the present US one) is the way forward and it takes the future into consideration. The free market would NEVER do that, especially considering that the free market is a crock to say the least.

    So its about you. Kind of knew that already but thanks for saying it outright.
    It is about everyone. A huge majority of Europeans are damn happy now days that their politicians did what they did.
    PeteEU

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    Re: EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's great. Let the market decide vice the government deciding for the market. The government didn't have to mandate the use of cars in the early 1900's. The government didn't have to build gas stations, either. The private market did that all by itself. I say let green energy do the same thing, otherwise, it's going to flop.
    Yeah, just like the free market created infrastructure allowing for the mass use of cars as long-distance transportation... oh wait...
    “The more you know, the harder it is to take decisive action. Once you become informed, you start seeing complexities and shades of gray. You realize that nothing is as clear and simple as it first appears. Ultimately, knowledge is paralyzing.” - Bill Watterson
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    Re: EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    Yeah, just like the free market created infrastructure allowing for the mass use of cars as long-distance transportation... oh wait...
    Because that was something that had to happen to have long distance transporation...oh wait...

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    Re: EU to ban cars from cities by 2050

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Pretty much every US politician supports big business over the people. Just look at the last 40 years of legislation.. time and time again the big business have gotten their legislation proposals pushed through.. GE and Exxon paying 0 dollars in taxes is just one of many many examples.
    When the times call for punishing big business almost everyone does so. When it doesn't everyone wants to play ball. That is just it. It doesn't mean that when they stand up they are brave, it just means they can see a benefit from it.


    Yes, but the market has ONLY provided ****ty gas mileage so far in the US and hence the consumer is getting hit hard with high gas prices. If the government had the balls to go in and mandate European style gas mileage standard, the US consumer would be much better off now. As it stands now, the European consumer with "high" European gas prices is far better off than the American consumer when it comes to going to the gas pump.
    How is it ****ty? Trucks again?

    So who would bust the big polluters? The EPA might not be doing its job good enough, but that is no reason to get rid of the only agency that stands between having 2 headed babies and not. Like it or not, if Big business could get away with it, then they would pollute like no tomorrow.. look at China or Russia for god sake.
    Who has two headed babies? Does China and Russia have a crap load of two headed babies running around? Are they turning green, growing antenna, or maybe they're just like the cone heads of SNL? I want to see these two headed babies!

    The answer to your question is you. Russia or China does not allow this to happen. That is really it.

    Yes it is up to the individual if he or she wants a big truck. What I am saying is it should be much more expensive for he/she to own such a truck rather than a fuel efficient car. Of course people who absolutely need a truck for work should be excempt some how, but there is no reason for a person in LA or a major US city to drive around in a freaking truck unless it is related to his/her job.
    So your reason to be mad at them and force them to do what you wish is because they have no reason to have it? Kind of a weak argument.

    US pharma uses more on advertising than on R&D. And yes their R&D is mostly funded by government grants.. as is the military industry and much more. Is that also a big "meah"?
    Tell me you didn't just bundle military research that is not in the interest of the free market and a direct interest and original purpose of government with medical research that is none of that.

    And as I said, the market forces have been going on in the US for the last 40 years and mileage has barely gone up. Why? Because people are ignorant and only think short term. That means when oil does go up, then they have a car that looks cool, has 10 cup holders and can hold 3 average Americans (6 normal human beings) but only goes 20 miles to the gallon if they lucky and then they start complaining about wanting better mileage, but the US car maker cant provide it fast enough.
    I love your fat hate you just have to put in your posts.

    How have car companies failed to meet what people want?

    That is why a government mandated minimum mileage standard (not the present US one) is the way forward and it takes the future into consideration. The free market would NEVER do that, especially considering that the free market is a crock to say the least.
    Says you.

    It is about everyone. A huge majority of Europeans are damn happy now days that their politicians did what they did.
    People are happy with getting more for themselves. Am I supposed to be surprised that Europeans that love getting things like healthcare from others are happy with this? I don't see how.
    Last edited by Henrin; 03-31-11 at 05:06 AM.

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