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kill team used body parts in poker games

From personal experience, that's not enforced. I mailed home an Iraqi army helmet and it now adorns the bar back of a little joint in Hammond, Louisiana. All without permission from the CENTCOM commander.

I'm sure that our members that are Iraq and Afghanistan vets can attest to that.

That's what I think about that.

Well this particular order came out in 2006, so with respect, it was a bit after your time and I do believe it does refer to souvenirs obtained and kept in-theater. It also says this:

Paragraph 2 of this General Order is punitive. Persons subject to the UCMJ may be punished thereunder. Civilians serving with, employed by, or accompanying the Armed Forecs of the United States in the USCENTCOM AOR may face criminal prosecution or adverse administrative action for violation of this General Order. In the case of contingency contractors, DOD INstruction 3020.41, dated October 3, 2005, provides guidance on administrative actions.

I understand it to be a criminal offense, seems that things have changed a bit since your time in Desert Storm.
 
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Well this particular order came out in 2006, so with respect, it was a bit after your time and I do believe it does refer to souvenirs obtained and kept in-theater. It also says this:

Paragraph 2 of this General Order is punitive. Persons subject to the UCMJ may be punished thereunder. Civilians serving with, employed by, or accompanying the Armed Forecs of the United States in the USCENTCOM AOR may face criminal prosecution or adverse administrative action for violation of this General Order. In the case of contingency contractors, DOD INstruction 3020.41, dated October 3, 2005, provides guidance on administrative actions.


I understand it to be a criminal offense, seems that things have changed a bit since your time in Desert Storm.

Right, but it still only pertains to trophies of war that are being shipped out of theater. It says nothing about possessing them in theater. Again, I want to hear from Iraq and Afghanistan vets about the issue.
 
Right, but it still only pertains to trophies of war that are being shipped out of theater. It says nothing about possessing them in theater.

I believe the word "acquire" and the phrase "for personal use" refers to keeping them in theater. Otherwise the phrase "shipped out of the USCENTCOM AOR" would not be necessary in referring to something else. Clearly you disagree.

Again, I want to hear from Iraq and Afghanistan vets about the issue.

Fair enough.
 
Those kids are just sick.

It makes me wonder, if some of them joined the military just because they wanted to kill people... It's really hard to believe that they simply went crazy from being in a war zone, or that they didn't know this was wrong.

What do you think?


The original source is Rolling Stone magazine... not exactly a credible mainstream media outlet.

Assuming there's any truth to any of this, we don't know how much or what is true and what is exaggeration or outright lie.

As others have pointed out, the taking of "trophies" has been commonplace for a very long time and will probably never go away entirely. My uncle, who was in WW2, looted a number of Luftwaffen soldiers of small personal items as "trophies"... allegedly he killed some of them himself. I have some of these items in my possession; I personally consider them family heirlooms as they are mementos of a part of the family history. Not nearly as grisly as ears or fingers, but I had ancestors on both sides of the Indian wars who took scalps....
 
The original source is Rolling Stone magazine... not exactly a credible mainstream media outlet.

Assuming there's any truth to any of this, we don't know how much or what is true and what is exaggeration or outright lie.

As others have pointed out, the taking of "trophies" has been commonplace for a very long time and will probably never go away entirely. My uncle, who was in WW2, looted a number of Luftwaffen soldiers of small personal items as "trophies"... allegedly he killed some of them himself. I have some of these items in my possession; I personally consider them family heirlooms as they are mementos of a part of the family history. Not nearly as grisly as ears or fingers, but I had ancestors on both sides of the Indian wars who took scalps....

I still think it's a valid issue at the very least in this modern era. In today's world, the taking of trophies, especially body parts, is a sign of a serial killer, in our society at least.

In fact, the more I read about these murders, the more they seem like the M.O. of a serial killer and those involved seem to fit the standard profile for one. White male from a lower-middleclass background, killing for "the thrill", a history of petty crimes, inability to hold down a steady job, etc.

To apdst: either back up your claim that Your Star made this thread only in an attempt to demonize the military or stop making it. As I already said, arguing that the actions of a few represent the whole of a group is utterly baseless and no one has made that argument, yet you are accusing anyone that looks at these individuals actions with disgust of hating our military. That isn't true, you've been told multiple times it isn't true, but your persecution complex seems incapable of allowing you to acknowledge it.

So, for the last time, stop trying to use this as a way of attacking a strawman of liberals.
 
I still think it's a valid issue at the very least in this modern era. In today's world, the taking of trophies, especially body parts, is a sign of a serial killer, in our society at least.

In fact, the more I read about these murders, the more they seem like the M.O. of a serial killer and those involved seem to fit the standard profile for one. White male from a lower-middleclass background, killing for "the thrill", a history of petty crimes, inability to hold down a steady job, etc.

To apdst: either back up your claim that Your Star made this thread only in an attempt to demonize the military or stop making it. As I already said, arguing that the actions of a few represent the whole of a group is utterly baseless and no one has made that argument, yet you are accusing anyone that looks at these individuals actions with disgust of hating our military. That isn't true, you've been told multiple times it isn't true, but your persecution complex seems incapable of allowing you to acknowledge it.

So, for the last time, stop trying to use this as a way of attacking a strawman of liberals.

Two things, just real quick like: 1) You Star didn't start this thread and 2) I never said that She Wolf started this thread, just to demonize all American soldiers. Nice try at making me the topic of the thread; I understand how you can be in awe of me, but you predictably blew it.
 
Two things, just real quick like: 1) You Star didn't start this thread and 2) I never said that She Wolf started this thread, just to demonize all American soldiers. Nice try at making me the topic of the thread; I understand how you can be in awe of me, but you predictably blew it.

I apologize, it's late and I confused the two.

Perhaps I should have said implying it, as you continue to make the point that
Liberalism is full-a-idiots. They've proven that.

How many Libbos start feel good threads about our troops? None, huh?
There are no Liberals using this thread to demonize the military as a whole. That accusation is a false bit of partisan bile.

As for the relevant topic, I don't know the military regulations, I'll have to ask some of my friends (although I'll bet cpgrad08 would probably know) but even if it isn't explicitly stated that mutilating the corpses of civilians and making trophies of their body parts isn't allowed, isn't that a morally contemptible act?
 
It's not irrelevant... Read the Rolling Stone article. Taking photos of human causalities and trading them is forbidden by the US military.

still irrelevent. it's like bitching about a guy violating the speed limit while fleeing the scene of a rape
 
You really think it's completely legal for soldiers to take photos of dead bodies in the military and trade them??

taking photos of dead bodies is completely legal. about the only way you can get in trouble for that is if there is classified info/details in the pictures. then they can get you for a security violation. taking and swapping pics of dead bodies is not illegal.
 
I apologize, it's late and I confused the two.

Perhaps I should have said implying it, as you continue to make the point that

There are no Liberals using this thread to demonize the military as a whole. That accusation is a false bit of partisan bile.
He simply said liberals don't start feel good threads about our military, which may or may not be true. Anything else you took from his comment is what you read into it.
 
still irrelevent. it's like bitching about a guy violating the speed limit while fleeing the scene of a rape

That's your opinion... My opinion is that it is relevant, and these aren't "war trophies" as these are not victims of war. They were murdered, and the fact that the kill team played poker with their fingers shows you how much disrespect they had for "hajis."
 
The original source is Rolling Stone magazine... not exactly a credible mainstream media outlet.

Assuming there's any truth to any of this, we don't know how much or what is true and what is exaggeration or outright lie.

As others have pointed out, the taking of "trophies" has been commonplace for a very long time and will probably never go away entirely. My uncle, who was in WW2, looted a number of Luftwaffen soldiers of small personal items as "trophies"... allegedly he killed some of them himself. I have some of these items in my possession; I personally consider them family heirlooms as they are mementos of a part of the family history. Not nearly as grisly as ears or fingers, but I had ancestors on both sides of the Indian wars who took scalps....

Other news sources are reporting this, and again, these people were not victims of war... They were murdered.
 
rolling stone was credible enough to END the career of general stanley mcchrystal

luckily, the man obama as senator refused to defend against those who called him general betrayus came to the president's rescue

meanwhile, most troubling about this kill team story:

Even before the war crimes became public, the Pentagon went to extraordinary measures to suppress the photos, launching a massive effort to find every file and pull the pictures out of circulation before they could touch off a scandal on the scale of Abu Ghraib.

The Kill Team Photos: | Rolling Stone Politics | Photos
 
What military personel? Got any names to attach to those sources? Or, are they, "anonymous"?

Rolling Stone did not provide the pictures it used. The pictures at the link were taken by members of the kill team itself. These pictures were also censored by the Pentagon, but got out anyways.

Kill team pictures are here (Not for those with a weak stomach - consider yourself warned).

These soldiers disgraced their uniforms, and America too.

Finally, your argument was "prove it". I just proved it. You could have also proven it for yourself, if partisan hackery was not your motive. The links are all over the internet, and easy to find.
 
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Those kids are just sick.

It makes me wonder, if some of them joined the military just because they wanted to kill people... It's really hard to believe that they simply went crazy from being in a war zone, or that they didn't know this was wrong.

What do you think?

A lot of soldiers join because they want a license to kill.
 
Those kids are just sick.

It makes me wonder, if some of them joined the military just because they wanted to kill people... It's really hard to believe that they simply went crazy from being in a war zone, or that they didn't know this was wrong.

What do you think?

If you're a psychopathic killer with the lust to kill, kill, kill.
Wouldn't you want to join the military?
 
A lot of soldiers join because they want a license to kill.

Some may, I've heard stories about those people, but speaking from personal experience those who do are in the vast minority. All the people I know personally in the military joined either because they had no other way to pay for college or because they simply wanted to serve their country.

It is unfair and ignorant to lump all others serving with these few, demented individuals.
 
Some may, I've heard stories about those people, but speaking from personal experience those who do are in the vast minority. All the people I know personally in the military joined either because they had no other way to pay for college or because they simply wanted to serve their country.

It is unfair and ignorant to lump all others serving with these few, demented individuals.

Yeah - I have no notion of numbers. I've met some so I figured they're dispersed throughout.
 
If you're a psychopathic killer with the lust to kill, kill, kill.
Wouldn't you want to join the military?

Most of the time they wouldn't last long in the Military (or at the very least our military) as discipline is a big part of being successful (or even just functioning) in the Military, which psychopaths don't posses.
 
Yeah - I have no notion of numbers. I've met some so I figured they're dispersed throughout.

They're in the vast minority of those who choose to serve. It is important to recognize that these sorts of people are exceptions to the military norm, not the norm itself.
 
Most of the time they wouldn't last long in the Military (or at the very least our military) as discipline is a big part of being successful (or even just functioning) in the Military, which psychopaths don't posses.

Apparently they did survived the military discipline.
Cus as you can see... these psychopaths killed civilians for fun.
 
Apparently they did survived the military discipline.
Cus as you can see... these psychopaths killed civilians for fun.

And are now being punished for it. For every soldier like this who dishonors the uniform, there are thousands who do it justice and lay their lives on the line on a daily basis. That something like this is incredibly newsworthy is itself an indication that behavior like this is far from the norm.
 
That's your opinion... My opinion is that it is relevant, and these aren't "war trophies" as these are not victims of war. They were murdered, and the fact that the kill team played poker with their fingers shows you how much disrespect they had for "hajis."

So, killing them wasn't disrespecting them?
 
Other news sources are reporting this, and again, these people were not victims of war... They were murdered.

The fact that they were murdered makes them victims of war.
 
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