Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst ... 78910 LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 94

Thread: Soldier gets 24 years for killing Afghan civilians

  1. #81
    Stable Genius
    MSgt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    18,282

    Re: Soldier gets 24 years for killing Afghan civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    Due to their tougher physical standards, the USMC tends to weed out the losers/dirtbags and malcontents during boot. Due to their lower manpower requirements, and higher technical nature, the USAF and USN can be more selective in their recruiting so the losers never make it in.
    But this still denies the problem. Only a lack of discipline and professionalism would allow a General to run off at the mouth and be fired in front of the international audience. Only a lack of loyalty would allow a Major to slaughter on an Army base. We aren't talking about boot washouts. If this problem exists at that level, how bad do you think it is as you go down the chain? It's a complete lack of discipline, pride, and brotherhood that would allow a soldier to murder his own. It's a complete lack of professionalism that would allow a soldier to use a Qu'ran as target practice as other soldiers of other ranks simply watch. A plot to murder civilians by a group of soldiers shows a complete lack of cohesion and leadership in the unit itself. And since we are talking about what is more of a trend than they are exceptions down through history, shouldn't we address it properly?

    Even the Corps has its discipline problems. The difference is that they know all day that they have no freedom to express their malicious opinions or to misbehave according to their personal disapprovals. I've been on airplanes a lot this year already. For every two or three squared away soldiers I see walking through the terminals I see another that's unbloused, slouching, unlaced, or simply looking like he hates his uniform. This attitude to "buck the system" translates throughout the ranks and into events abroad. Why do you think the Marine Corps is so big on insignificant details like "Irish Pennants," hair cuts, weight standards, wall locker inspections, CGRIs? It's because if those are sloppy, it will translate into something later that will matter.
    Last edited by MSgt; 03-29-11 at 02:46 PM.

    MSgt
    Semper Fidelis
    USMC

  2. #82
    Farts in Elevators
    OscarB63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Last Seen
    09-06-14 @ 07:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,526

    Re: Soldier gets 24 years for killing Afghan civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    But this still denies the problem. Only a lack of discipline and professionalism would allow a General to run off at the mouth and be fired in front of the international audience. If this problem exists at that level, how bad do you think it is as you go down the chain? It's a complete lack of discipline, pride, and brotherhood that would allow a soldier to murder his own. It's a complete lack of professionalism that would allow a soldier to use a Qu'ran as target practice as other soldiers of other ranks simply watch. A plot to murder civilians by a group of soldiers shows a complete lack of cohesion and leadership in the unit itself.

    Even the Corps hasits discipline problems. The difference is that they know all day that they have no freedom to express their malicious opinions or to misbehave according to their personal disapprovals. I've been on airplanes a lot this year already. For every two or three squared away soldiers I see walking through the terminals I see another that's unbloused, slouching, unlaced, or simply looking like he hates his uniform. This attitude to "buck the system" translates throughout the ranks and into events abroad. Why do you think the Marine Corps is so big on insignificant details like "Irish Pennants," hair cuts, weight standards, wall locker inspections, CGRIs? It's because if those are sloppy, it will translate into something later that will matter.
    and there is the kicker. for whatever reason, the Army has pussified its standards and training. back in '05, I was at Ft Leonard Wood for my MP officer advance course. I was June and about 90 degrees. I was driving to the PX and saw a freakin drill SGT mowing grass. I was dumbfounded. I felt compelled to stop my car and ask him "WTF is going on here?" his reply saddened me and all I could do was shake my head. he said, "Sir, it is too hot for us to make the trainees mow the grass". So while this career NCO, sweated his ass off in the summer sun, the trainees were sitting on their asses in an air conditioned theater watching "motivational videos".

    I don't know who makes these kinds of stupid ass policies, but that is where the trouble lies. back in my day, most of the trouble makers and malcontents were washed out by the rigors of basic training. sadly, these days, you don't even have to pass the freakin PT test to graduate.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  3. #83
    Stable Genius
    MSgt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    18,282

    Re: Soldier gets 24 years for killing Afghan civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    and there is the kicker. for whatever reason, the Army has pussified its standards and training. back in '05, I was at Ft Leonard Wood for my MP officer advance course. I was June and about 90 degrees. I was driving to the PX and saw a freakin drill SGT mowing grass. I was dumbfounded. I felt compelled to stop my car and ask him "WTF is going on here?" his reply saddened me and all I could do was shake my head. he said, "Sir, it is too hot for us to make the trainees mow the grass". So while this career NCO, sweated his ass off in the summer sun, the trainees were sitting on their asses in an air conditioned theater watching "motivational videos".
    Absolute leaderhip problem.


    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    I don't know who makes these kinds of stupid ass policies, but that is where the trouble lies.
    I think its because of the Army focus. The Army has always focused on big box wars and are less concerned with other type missions. This may translate on the Army's expressed focus on big unit training vice individual soldier training. In other words, if the unit is strong, the individuals must be too. "The Army of One" hasn't translated very well into the unit. In the Marines, the core unit focus is the Fire Team, which means the individual has to be in focus. In other words, of the individual is strong, the unit is strong.
    Last edited by MSgt; 03-29-11 at 03:11 PM.

    MSgt
    Semper Fidelis
    USMC

  4. #84
    Farts in Elevators
    OscarB63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Last Seen
    09-06-14 @ 07:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,526

    Re: Soldier gets 24 years for killing Afghan civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    In other words, if the individual is strong, the unit is strong.

    and that's where, IMHO, the Army has it ass backwards.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  5. #85
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    77,968

    Re: Soldier gets 24 years for killing Afghan civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    Due to their tougher physical standards, the USMC tends to weed out the losers/dirtbags and malcontents during boot. Due to their lower manpower requirements, and higher technical nature, the USAF and USN can be more selective in their recruiting so the losers never make it in.

    That leaves the Army, high manpower requirement and without the glamour of the air force and navy or the prestige of the marines. most of the marginal cases and outright losers and dirtbags end up in the army.

    I wish I had a dollar for every "soldier" I have had to discipline who was a washout from one of the other branches.
    That's debtable. I went to a mix branch school and there were mostly Marines in my class. The Marine barracks were next door to ours and they had their fair share of goofballs.

  6. #86
    Farts in Elevators
    OscarB63's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Last Seen
    09-06-14 @ 07:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,526

    Re: Soldier gets 24 years for killing Afghan civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's debtable. I went to a mix branch school and there were mostly Marines in my class. The Marine barracks were next door to ours and they had their fair share of goofballs.
    yeah, but there is a difference between being a goofball and being a total dirtbag. I have seen guys fresh from AIT that I wouldn't trust clean a toilet
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  7. #87
    Sage
    lpast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fla
    Last Seen
    05-21-16 @ 10:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    13,565

    Re: Soldier gets 24 years for killing Afghan civilians

    Let me start by saying what those GIs did was horrific and totally against anything the military or the USA stands for.
    I dont know how many of you are combat veterans, but these young guys are under huge stress. No the videos didnt show that, but stress becomes evident in many different ways. People handle stress differently. These guys are subjected to tour after tour after tour, being away from family and friends and familiar surroundings. This has been going on for 10 long years. Nam didnt go on that long and most all did one or two tours in nam..not constant repetitive tours over and over. The military was far larger during nam, its much smaller now and the rotation is grueling.
    Im not condoning their horrific acts of barbarism nor trying to justify it...im merely bringing out a truthful point of view...the stress they are under contributed to what occurred. Its unusual for a GROUP to do what they did there have always been incidents with individuals. My lai in nam comes to mind, when you get a group committing horrific acts that leads me to believe that stress played a major role. I also believe that the Commanders at least platoon sgts and company commanders should be held to some accountability, if they were on top of their men and doing their job this couldnt have gone on so long...same with abu grahib. Men under stress in combat need supervision and cant be left to their own designs. You need those Sgts putting a foot in your arse to keep you straight.

  8. #88
    pirate lover
    liblady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    St Thomas, VI
    Last Seen
    03-14-16 @ 03:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    16,165
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Soldier gets 24 years for killing Afghan civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by The Preacher View Post
    Way too long, two years apiece would have been plenty.
    explain please.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  9. #89
    Basketball Nerd
    StillBallin75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vilseck, Germany
    Last Seen
    01-12-18 @ 02:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    21,907

    Re: Soldier gets 24 years for killing Afghan civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    explain please.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1059375069
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  10. #90
    Educating the Ignorant
    zimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:07 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    14,716
    Blog Entries
    12

    Re: Soldier gets 24 years for killing Afghan civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    24 year prison sentence is not enough?
    I love and respect the folks that put on the uniform and put their lives on the line for us, but 24-years for serial murder seems light. Then again, I haven't read up on the case, and with that will shut my yap.

    .
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

Page 9 of 10 FirstFirst ... 78910 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •