• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Canadian government falls, election set for May

Grant said:
I would have done that if i had realized the ballsup it would eventually become. But we're looking at hindsight here.
Click to expand...

that tells me that you were content with the health care system you had, only until this singular experience
 
justabubba said:
that tells me that you were content with the health care system you had, only until this singular experience
Click to expand...

because no one here is ever misdiagnosed. or has the incorrect limb amputated.
 
justabubba said:
that tells me that you were content with the health care system you had, only until this singular experience
Click to expand...

Is that what it tells you?

For some reason I have no interest in what the beliefs of a "justabubba" might be, or how you interpret the written word.
 
danarhea said:
Translation.....

Death panels = Insurance company letters of denial.
Click to expand...

It looks like the US is going to have more government health care and then you will know. Right now I feel that I'm telling someone that smoking is bad for their health but they've got a lot of the finest doctors and scientists everywhere claiming that smoking is good for you, that it calms your nerves and is sexy as well. The example in Massachusetts isn't enough evidence and someone who has lived under the system for years isn't either.

Do what you want, mates. You got a very big lesson to learn, but then there is no turning back.
 
Grant said:
Is that what it tells you?

For some reason I have no interest in what the beliefs of a "justabubba" might be, or how you interpret the written word.
Click to expand...

then what else could be surmised
had you been truly dissatisfied with canadian health care previously, you would not have waited as you did to receive the treatment you got. you would have gone south and got the superior care you believed existed there
and that you continued to remain in canada after receiving what you found to be inferior medical attention tells me that you elected to not seek out paid medical care in the lower 48
the point being, if medical care was so much better in the USA, why the hell would you elect to get it from canadian medical providers

my conclusion is that either your decision making skills are very flawed, or - like many here in the USA - you were unable/unwilling to pony up for the medical attention available to you in the states
 
Grant said:
Here you won't even get an apology, though probably a disablement pension if you survive, and your family or your estate must pay for your funeral.
Click to expand...

Grant, the naiveté of some folks is utterly amazing. Government has proven to be slow, bureaucratic, detached and corrupt, and they want these clowns running their healthcare. Here is a German Dr. speaking about rationing... and rationing means denying people care... which means government is the decider... the purveyor of death panels.

Medizin: „Welcher Patient geht leer aus?“ - News - FOCUS Online
Medicine "Which patient gets nothing?"


Transplant surgeon Eckhard Nagel of the National Ethics Council explains the pressure to ration of medical care

FOCUS: German health politicians will assert that full coverage of the population would remain with cutting-edge medicine. In contrast, the National Ethics Council now proposes a new public debate about rationing. Is this really necessary?

Nagel: Claiming anyone at any time can acquire high-performance medical treatment possible, I think, is a dangerous suppression of reality. Rationing is commonplace in medicine and will increase in future. Even today patients waiting for major operations, such as not enough places for their intensive care available must also be decide in transplantation medicine, which patient receives a saving organ and which no seats and possibly die on the waiting list. This dilemma is seen but not enough.

FOCUS: Why has so far been no public discussion about rationing?

Nagel: The allocation of limited health goods due to cost is a very sensitive issue to which our society is ill prepared. Politicians have made the experience that they prefer to conceal this uncomfortable truth. Otherwise they run the risk of being punished as a bearer of bad news - for example at the ballot box. Nevertheless, I believe it is their duty to clarify the problem, even if there is no easy exit strategy.

FOCUS: Can we avoid the limited allocation, as we raise more money for the health care system?

Nagel: At the moment already. But medical progress has no foreseeable limits. We are always faced with the question of what we can afford yet. Is it even possible, as previously granted to all health goods in accordance with the principle of equality? Or treatment should depend on the purse of the patient, his age or his social embeddedness? Must pay an injured person's treatment out of pocket when he caused the accident itself? Such scenarios must be addressed, and that takes an ethical debate.

FOCUS: Must 85-year-old's fear that they will not receive artificial hip or heart valve?

Nagel: I think not. But of course, remain ethical dilemma decisions when conflicts are not enough. We just have to try to the best of all strategies. This decision process has to be transparent. The only way people get the feeling that they are taken into consideration, even if they do not approve of this.

FOCUS: What do you fear, when politicians and citizens continue to ignore that rationing is necessary?

Nagel: This can be fatal, under which the patients - and all of us - eventually suffer unnecessarily. As will be discussed today about the cost of health only in the short term and with hot button words, emotionalizes the situation. This is an unfortunate way to kick start the discussion, because it causes anxiety. Citizens feel existentially delivered.

MEDICAL ETHICS AND

Eckhard Nagel, 46, health scientist at the University of Bayreuth.
Click to expand...
 
justabubba said:
this post causes me to question why you did come down to the lower 48 to purchase the medical care you insist is better than that available to you in canada, in addition to being more responsive to your medical needs nothing prevented you from purchasing the medical services you required
Click to expand...

He's paying for health care now via taxes. May have all his life for all I know.

How can he afford to pay his Canadian health insurance, and then go off insurance to the U.S., not to mention the time/travel costs to the U.S.?

10 years ago I could not have afforded expensive treatment abroad if my U.S. insurance, that I pay routinely for, didn't cover it. Why would you suggest he's lying?
 
justabubba said:
then what else could be surmised
Click to expand...

There are endless possibilities, Justabubba.

Why not start surmising them?
1. had you been truly dissatisfied with canadian health care previously, you would not have waited as you did to receive the treatment you got. you would have gone south and got the superior care you believed existed there
Click to expand...

2. and that you continued to remain in canada after receiving what you found to be inferior medical attention tells me that you elected to not seek out paid medical care in the lower 48
Click to expand...
3.the point being, if medical care was so much better in the USA, why the hell would you elect to get it from canadian medical providers
Click to expand...

4. my conclusion is that either your decision making skills are very flawed, or - like many here in the USA - you were unable/unwilling to pony up for the medical attention available to you in the states
Click to expand...


C'mon , Justabubba. Try for ten!
Click to expand...
 
Grant said:
There are endless possibilities, Justabubba.

Why not start surmising them?








C'mon , Justabubba. Try for ten!
Click to expand...
don't need for ten

you have posted enough for me to safely conclude you have no idea what you are griping about
Click to expand...
 
zimmer said:
Grant, the naiveté of some folks is utterly amazing. Government has proven to be slow, bureaucratic, detached and corrupt, and they want these clowns running their healthcare. Here is a German Dr. speaking about rationing... and rationing means denying people care... which means government is the decider... the purveyor of death panels.
Click to expand...

I spent about half my time for the past 18 years in Costa Rica and they have what in Canada would be called a 'two-tier system'. That means there would be both public and private. In Canada private doctors are illegal no matter what their qualifications.

I am friends with a German couple in Costa Rica and about two months after they arrived one of them went to see a private clinic about his back, help he had been waiting for for several years in Germany.

On his arrival they examined him, the next day an MRI, the day after the operation, and three days later (if i recall) his release. This was about 8 years ago. It cost him $4,200 and he hasn't had a problem since. This from a guy about 40 who was walking bent to one side over 50% of the time.

I spent some time in a public hospital in Costa Rica and after that I made sure anyone working for me had private care, and I paid for it. It was inhumane and absolutely undignified for the people being treated there!

My only experience with government run health care has been in Canada, the UK and Costa Rica, though I see no reason why my friend would lie about German health care.

From my limited understanding of health care in the US it seems that they need more competition between insurance providers and also tort reform. 'Obamacare' is not health care 'reform' at all. It is a complete (and corrupt, i believe) makeover.
 
Last edited:
Everyone dislikes Harper, Everyone dislikes Ignatieff, who does that leave, Jack Layton, aww yeah. Liberals are asses, so are the Conservatives, NDP ftw.
 
Juiposa said:
Everyone dislikes Harper, Everyone dislikes Ignatieff, who does that leave, Jack Layton, aww yeah. Liberals are asses, so are the Conservatives, NDP ftw.
Click to expand...

Perhaps students dislike Harper but that's why they are students. They're still part of the learning process.

But adults seem to like Harper just fine.
 
Grant said:
Perhaps students dislike Harper but that's why they are students. They're still part of the learning process.

But adults seem to like Harper just fine.
Click to expand...

LOL, really? Can you link me because I am not feeling the love in my part of Canada.
 
Grant said:
I had skin cancer on my lip diagnosed as herpes, even though I could look at it and see it wasn't. Then waiting until it was re-diagnosed, a wait for a trip to the specialist, then a wait for the biopsy results, another wait for the operation by a butcher, then two long waits and visits to a plastic surgeon for repairs.

Many Canadians are happy with their health care because they don't know any better and believe that it's 'free'. They've become dependent and have no idea that it was once the best in the world before the bureaucracies took over. They just don't know.

And that's what will happen in te States too, just as it has happened everywhere else.
Click to expand...

Grant, do you honestly think that what you have just described here has not happened to someone else in the US? Please.

Bottom line, you are one of the very few Canadians that I know of who would rather Canada use the current American healthcare system. In fact, this is the very first time I have witnessed it.
 
Middleground said:
Grant, do you honestly think that what you have just described here has not happened to someone else in the US? Please.

Bottom line, you are one of the very few Canadians that I know of who would rather Canada use the current American healthcare system. In fact, this is the very first time I have witnessed it.
Click to expand...

Who said I would prefer the current American health care system? In fact I have been critical, Do you know how to use quotes?
 
Pull My Finger said:
Not to start a war on whose country is better, but it had to be said…

I won’t claim our healthcare system is without its faults, but NOBODY gets denied because they don’t have insurance. NOBODY I know has gone broke because of an illness… From what I remember, Canada’s books weren’t in as bad a shape as the US’s when the meltdown happened, and I’d rather invest in just about ANY dollar than the US’s right now…

I’ve witnessed long waits for some people with health problems, but I’ve NEVER seen or heard of anyone dying because they couldn’t get care. As bubba pointed out, we even spend too much keeping people alive who’d rather be dead.

If you are near deaths door, you get bumped to the head of the line, pronto, even if you have to take it upon yourself to go to emergency… We have too many people using Emergency for silly reasons, that’s about it…

I would agree that is one of the dumbest things I’ve read in awhile. Not partisan at all either.

But, back to topic, yes, we have a bunch of effing yahoo’s running our country too. Canadians had two concerns of late.

  1. Keeping their jobs, job creation
  2. NO ELECTION
Ah well, at least the bud in BC is strong enough to tune them out, and I won’t be doing 10 years for having a roach in my ashtray…

Peace
Click to expand...

Then why do so many Canadians come here for healthcare? Perhaps because of those six-month waiting lists?
 
Grant said:
Instead of relying on your feelings, Middlegrund, why don't you look at the polls.
Click to expand...

I have. It seems the adults--once again-- don't like Harper enough to give him a majority again. Sad, but true.
 
Grant said:
My only experience with government run health care has been in Canada, the UK and Costa Rica, though I see no reason why my friend would lie about German health care.
Click to expand...

That is the big fallacy.

The government does not run our healthcare.

It funds it.

Big difference.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom