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Thread: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

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    Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    DURHAM, N.C. (AP) -- When Chad Holtz lost his old belief in hell, he also lost his job.
    The pastor of a rural United Methodist church in North Carolina wrote a note on his Facebook page supporting a new book by Rob Bell, a prominent young evangelical pastor and critic of the traditional view of hell as a place of eternal torment for billions of damned souls.

    Two days later, Holtz was told complaints from church members prompted his dismissal from Marrow's Chapel in Henderson.
    Does Gandhi go to hell? I don't really know. That's for another thread, but let's get right down to the nitty gritty. How about Protestants and Catholics? I was brought up Baptist, and my wife was brought up Catholic. When we were ready to get married, her priest refused to perform the ceremony, and told me to my face that I was about to drag her to hell. My Baptist preacher took a different tack. He smiled at her, instead of condemning. However, he took me aside, out of earshot of Carol, and said he couldn't do the ceremony because she was Catholic, and told me that she was going to hell if she didn't give up being Catholic. She and I got married in a Christian reformed church, after telling both the Baptist preacher and Catholic priest to take a hike.

    So who goes to hell? I'm not really sure, but that Baptist preacher and Catholic priest sure seem to have a leg up on many people. But they are men of God, right? And God's word is infallible, right? So which one of them is the blasphemer? I would say that both of them are. The Bible says that a man takes a wife, and that's that. And I don't care if my wife was from some Pacific Island, and grew up wearing a bone in her nose. Sometimes I think that the cannibal in his or her own society has the capacity to be more moral than the churchgoer in ours. How many people have died because Protestants and Catholics started wars over religion? Show me a place in the Bible that says this is OK. All I see is something called the 6th Commandment. But that didn't stop Torquemada from torturing hundreds of thousands of people to death, and performing the first Holocaust of the Jews in Europe, did it? Didn't stop the 30 years war either, which began in 1617. And aside from Catholic vs. Protestant, what about Protestant vs. Protestant? It didn't stop the Civil War, or lynchings of African-Americans by the KKK, or the belief, arrived at by torturing the meaning of the Bible, that African-Americans where somehow racially inferior to white people. I could go on, but you get my drift.

    So, who is going to heaven, and who is going to hell? I can't tell you who is going to hell, but if history is any indication, I would assert that my mythical Pacific Island cannibal has a better chance of getting into heaven than some people who dare to call themselves Christians.

    Discussion?

    Article is here.
    Last edited by danarhea; 03-24-11 at 05:36 PM.
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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Clearly only those who kneel before His Holiness the Flying Spaghetti Monster are the ones who make it to heaven. Anyone who has not been touched by His Noodly Apendage is for sure to taste eternal damnation!
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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Does Gandhi go to hell? I don't really know. That's for another thread, but let's get right down to the nitty gritty. How about Protestants and Catholics? I was brought up Baptist, and my wife was brought up Catholic. When we were ready to get married, her priest refused to perform the ceremony, and told me to my face that I was about to drag her to hell. My Baptist preacher took a different tack. He smiled at her, instead of condemning. However, he took me aside, out of earshot of Carol, and said he couldn't do the ceremony because she was Catholic, and told me that she was going to hell if she didn't give up being Catholic. She and I got married in a Christian reformed church, after telling both the Baptist preacher and Catholic priest to take a hike.

    So who goes to hell? I'm not really sure, but that Baptist preacher and Catholic priest sure seem to have a leg up on many people. But they are men of God, right? And God's word is infallible, right? So which one of them is the blasphemer? I would say that both of them are. The Bible says that a man takes a wife, and that's that. And I don't care if my wife was from some Pacific Island, and grew up wearing a bone in her nose. Sometimes I think that the cannibal in his or her own society has the capacity to be more moral than the churchgoer in ours. How many people have died because Protestants and Catholics started wars over religion? Show me a place in the Bible that says this is OK. All I see is something called the 6th Commandment. But that didn't stop Torquemada from torturing hundreds of thousands of people to death, and performing the first Holocaust of the Jews in Europe, did it? Didn't stop the 30 years war either, which began in 1617. And aside from Catholic vs. Protestant, what about Protestant vs. Protestant? It didn't stop the Civil War, or lynchings of African-Americans by the KKK, or the belief, arrived at by torturing the meaning of the Bible, that African-Americans where somehow racially inferior to white people. I could go on, but you get my drift.

    So, who is going to heaven, and who is going to hell? I can't tell you who is going to hell, but if history is any indication, I would assert that my mythical Pacific Island cannibal has a better chance of getting into heaven than some people who dare to call themselves Christians.

    Discussion?

    Article is here.
    I believe the current Catholic take on it is that they can't know who is in hell as that is up to God.
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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    I don't know, none of us know. And that's the short, and simple version.
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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Does Gandhi go to hell? I don't really know. That's for another thread, but let's get right down to the nitty gritty. How about Protestants and Catholics? I was brought up Baptist, and my wife was brought up Catholic. When we were ready to get married, her priest refused to perform the ceremony, and told me to my face that I was about to drag her to hell. My Baptist preacher took a different tack. He smiled at her, instead of condemning. However, he took me aside, out of earshot of Carol, and said he couldn't do the ceremony because she was Catholic, and told me that she was going to hell if she didn't give up being Catholic. She and I got married in a Christian reformed church, after telling both the Baptist preacher and Catholic priest to take a hike.

    So who goes to hell? I'm not really sure, but that Baptist preacher and Catholic priest sure seem to have a leg up on many people. But they are men of God, right? And God's word is infallible, right? So which one of them is the blasphemer? I would say that both of them are. The Bible says that a man takes a wife, and that's that. And I don't care if my wife was from some Pacific Island, and grew up wearing a bone in her nose. Sometimes I think that the cannibal in his or her own society has the capacity to be more moral than the churchgoer in ours. How many people have died because Protestants and Catholics started wars over religion? Show me a place in the Bible that says this is OK. All I see is something called the 6th Commandment. But that didn't stop Torquemada from torturing hundreds of thousands of people to death, and performing the first Holocaust of the Jews in Europe, did it? Didn't stop the 30 years war either, which began in 1617. And aside from Catholic vs. Protestant, what about Protestant vs. Protestant? It didn't stop the Civil War, or lynchings of African-Americans by the KKK, or the belief, arrived at by torturing the meaning of the Bible, that African-Americans where somehow racially inferior to white people. I could go on, but you get my drift.

    So, who is going to heaven, and who is going to hell? I can't tell you who is going to hell, but if history is any indication, I would assert that my mythical Pacific Island cannibal has a better chance of getting into heaven than some people who dare to call themselves Christians.

    Discussion?

    Article is here.
    it's my belief that no religion trumps another. unfortunately, we have some very deluded people who belive that THEIR religion is the only way to avoid hell. whcih is ridiculous on it's face, after all, would god REALLY choose a catholic over a muslim, or a jew, just on the basis of their religion? of course not, just as god wouldn't expect us to able to sort out which religion was "correct". religion is man made, therefore suspect.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    I'm down with love winning. It sounds a lot nicer than all the hate I hear about so often.
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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    I don't know that I believe in hell. It seems like an unlikely place considering how much our choices and actions are influenced by our experiences. It doesn't make sense to have a place where people whose experiences lead them to make "wrong" decisions burn for eternity. By that logic, the class war between the rich and the poor might carry on in the afterlife considering how crime increases in poor neighborhoods. I don't know. If I were God, I would just make everybody watch the pain they caused other people, watch the consequences of that pain (seen and unseen), make everybody work off their asshole behavior and then let everybody in heaven.

    In the end, the concept of hell seems very nonsensical to me considering how many external forces influence our behavior - in spite of the fact that the priests who taught me in high school insisted that I was already well on my way to that fiery place.

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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Anyone who has not been forgiven of sin will be sent to hell because of those sins. The only way to be forgiven is to repent before God. Jesus is the only one who can forgive sin, thus everyone but repentant and forgiven Christians will go to hell. God's love and Grace is strong enough to forgive any sin, however in order to be forgiven we must repent and believe in Jesus and the sacrifice He made. Only God and the individual knows if they are saved, so it's not our place to judge. However, all others will go to hell for their unforgiven sins because their sins prevent them from being in God's Presence and demand judgement. I do believe that this pastor should have been fired.
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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Anyone who has not been forgiven of sin will be sent to hell because of those sins. The only way to be forgiven is to repent before God. Jesus is the only one who can forgive sin, thus everyone but repentant and forgiven Christians will go to hell. God's love and Grace is strong enough to forgive any sin, however in order to be forgiven we must repent and believe in Jesus and the sacrifice He made. Only God and the individual knows if they are saved, so it's not our place to judge. However, all others will go to hell for their unforgiven sins because their sins prevent them from being in God's Presence and demand judgement. I do believe that this pastor should have been fired.
    And what about the Jews? Here is something you didn't know. Do you know where the books of the law were kept, after God handed them down to Moses? Underneath the judgement seat, where God sat, in the Holy of Holies. Bet you didn't know that this is the first documented instance of the term "above the law". And God IS above the law. So while he made harsh laws calling for death for certain crimes, those laws were kept under the seat where he sat. God IS above the law, and the Jews received Grace from God, despite what the law said. After all, God IS above it.
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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    And what about the Jews? Here is something you didn't know. Do you know where the books of the law were kept, after God handed them down to Moses? Underneath the judgement seat, where God sat, in the Holy of Holies. Bet you didn't know that this is the first documented instance of the term "above the law". And God IS above the law. So while he made harsh laws calling for death for certain crimes, those laws were kept under the seat where he sat. God IS above the law, and the Jews received Grace from God, despite what the law said. After all, God IS above it.
    Yes, however the Jewish faith brought salvation before Christ came. Jesus was the fulfillment of the law. Biblically, the dead who followed the Law were sent to paradise and not brought into heaven until Jesus had died on the cross (meaning those in paradise finally had their sins atoned for). The Law was powerless to forgive sin. However, the Law brought about salvation before Christ and after Christ those who followed the Law were finally able to enter heaven after sin had been truly defeated by the Messiah. God is the Judge, the maker of the Law. He handed down the Law of Moses and gave punishments for sin. However, God also said that He would rather have people repent of sin and live versus people sin and die for it. God is merciful, but He is not a liar. Sin must be judged, and the only way to escape judgement is to have our sins absolved through repentance and because of the atonement of Christ who took that judgement for all people.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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