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Thread: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    It's funny you bring this up Dan, because I have been thinking about this. I date somebody whom is Jewish, but I am not Jewish.

    My boyfriend has taught a few things about the Jewish faith that I didn't know, however, I have always known that they don't marry outside the religion. He says he isn't that religious now, which I believe. He has tattoos, works Sabbath, doesn't go to synagogue... but I still wonder if it's going to be a problem eventually like it was for you and your wife.

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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Moderator's Warning:
    Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debateJerry is banned from this thread. Any additional posts from Jerry will result in a 5 point DBAJ infraction for each post.
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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    it's a shame jerry is forbidden from further contributions to this thread
    i appreciated his unique take on this topic

    a bit of irony here, recognizing that the op was about a methodist minister who was ejected from his congregation. that banishment resulted because he subscribed to a different view. that of another minister (Rob Bell) whose book, love wins, an advocacy of loving behavior, is found abhorrent by some followers of the Christian faith

    why the avoidance of differing views, both in this thread and within the Christian church?. why the fear of unconventional thought?
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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    It's funny you bring this up Dan, because I have been thinking about this. I date somebody whom is Jewish, but I am not Jewish.

    My boyfriend has taught a few things about the Jewish faith that I didn't know, however, I have always known that they don't marry outside the religion. He says he isn't that religious now, which I believe. He has tattoos, works Sabbath, doesn't go to synagogue... but I still wonder if it's going to be a problem eventually like it was for you and your wife.
    I think it is rather unfortunate that Christians are not in better touch with their Jewish roots (a general statement, not citing you, just the prevailing wisdom). It seems too many Christians read only the New Testament or subscribe to the notion that somehow the Jews missed the bus (the significance of Christ) and that Christians are now the chosen people. I don't think this is at all biblical. Remember, Christians have been grafted on to the vine of God's chosen people. In the New Covenant, the promise of eternal life was expanded to include the Gentiles. In Paul’s letter to the Ephesians 3 (and also Ephesians 2) speaks to much of this:

    Ephesians 2:

    11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
    14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
    19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.


    Ephesians 3:

    1 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles—
    2 Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.


    There are other passages throughout the Bible (old and new) that speak to the fact that all Jews will not have their eyes open to the Messiah, but that their blindness will not damn them to eternal death.

    I think if Christians truly understood their place in God's plan, we would have a much better kinship with our Jewish brothers and sisters.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 03-25-11 at 03:41 PM.

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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Anyone who has not been forgiven of sin will be sent to hell because of those sins. The only way to be forgiven is to repent before God. Jesus is the only one who can forgive sin, thus everyone but repentant and forgiven Christians will go to hell. God's love and Grace is strong enough to forgive any sin, however in order to be forgiven we must repent and believe in Jesus and the sacrifice He made. Only God and the individual knows if they are saved, so it's not our place to judge. However, all others will go to hell for their unforgiven sins because their sins prevent them from being in God's Presence and demand judgement. I do believe that this pastor should have been fired.
    I used to believe that, too. What a horrible system!

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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Clearly only those who kneel before His Holiness the Flying Spaghetti Monster are the ones who make it to heaven. Anyone who has not been touched by His Noodly Apendage is for sure to taste eternal damnation!
    I really don't like this post. Philosophical questions like the one in the OP is what ultimately led me away from Christianity, but I still have many practicing Christians among my friend and family, and I would never disrespect their beliefs in this way. How can you successfully make a point when you casually belittle the most cherished beliefs of the people you're debating?

    And besides, you're just plain wrong. Whatever your take on faith and reason, there is no doubt that God is active in human society. As a cultural concept, God is a powerful force, if only by virtue of the vast numbers of people who embrace him. Meanwhile, no one has ever given a dime to charity because the "flying spaghetti monster" compelled him to. You ignore the good works done in God's name and look down on people who profess to value charity, humility and love.

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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    It's funny you bring this up Dan, because I have been thinking about this. I date somebody whom is Jewish, but I am not Jewish.

    My boyfriend has taught a few things about the Jewish faith that I didn't know, however, I have always known that they don't marry outside the religion. He says he isn't that religious now, which I believe. He has tattoos, works Sabbath, doesn't go to synagogue... but I still wonder if it's going to be a problem eventually like it was for you and your wife.
    My mother did. She married my father, who was an Irish Catholic who converted to Protestant. LOL. Later in life, she studied Buddhism, and meditated a lot.

    Lucky me. Look at all the religions I can call myself. LOL. But seriously, I think I will just worship God, and leave the religions to all those people who like to kill each other over it.
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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Now I'm supposed to be taking a break from DP.

    But I'm really inspired to ask.

    This is a purely philosophical question.

    If a lets say, Athiest spends his whole life working for AID agencies, helping starving children in Africa. Seflessly. But never accepts Christ, he goes to hell for that?

    And a dude in Oklohama spends his whole life doing nothing. But accepts christ, and asks for forgiveness. He will go to heaven?
    The atheist who spend his life working for aid agencies would go to hell. It's his sins that send him there, not his good works that get him into heaven.

    The guy in Oklahoma would go to heaven if he has truly repented. However I find it hard that he would do nothing if he has truly repented and claims to follow the teachings of Christ.
    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Isn't repenting the Catholic view?
    I'm not sure, I'm not Catholic. However, repenting is the Biblical view.
    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    I used to believe that, too. What a horrible system!
    How is it horrible? A Loving and Just God chose to suffer as a human and die for your sin so that you may escape the fate that you brought upon yourself?
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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    How is it horrible? A Loving and Just God chose to suffer as a human and die for your sin so that you may escape the fate that you brought upon yourself?
    That's not the horrible part. The horrible part is eternal damnation for failing to adhere to cultural norms.

    For example, a devout, born-and-raised Buddhist who lives a righteous life but rejects a Christian missionary's take on the afterlife is damned under such a system. Now, as a former Christian, if a Buddhist missionary had come up to me with his message of peace, I would have rejected him outright. Why? Because I was raised a Christian, and I believed in Christianity. Of course, the difference is that the Buddhist wouldn't damn my soul to endless hellfire on that basis.

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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    That's not the horrible part. The horrible part is eternal damnation for failing to adhere to cultural norms.

    For example, a devout, born-and-raised Buddhist who lives a righteous life but rejects a Christian missionary's take on the afterlife is damned under such a system. Now, as a former Christian, if a Buddhist missionary had come up to me with his message of peace, I would have rejected him outright. Why? Because I was raised a Christian, and I believed in Christianity. Of course, the difference is that the Buddhist wouldn't damn my soul to endless hellfire on that basis.
    There is an irony here. The Bible frequently mentions hell as an "outer darkness", in which you are nothing. Buddhists meditate so that they may become "nothing" in the afterlife. So, ironically, both Christians and Buddhists will get what they desire, if they stick to their religions. LOL.
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