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Thread: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Jesus died for everyone's sin, but not everyone is forgiven because they don't repent.
    You don't have to repent. Romans is pretty clear on that. All you have to do is the right things and it doesn't matter if you were an atheist your whole life.

    oh, and you're going to hell.

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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You don't have to repent. Romans is pretty clear on that. All you have to do is the right things and it doesn't matter if you were an atheist your whole life.

    oh, and you're going to hell.
    I think the Bible is extremely clear that you do have to repent, and that being good can't atone for sin. Jesus Himself said that many will be before Him and sent to hell for their sin even though they have claimed to follow Christ and did some good things. What matters is sin, and only Christ can remove and forgive sin. Our works and "goodness" cannot save us.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    What matters is sin, and only Christ can remove and forgive sin. Our works and "goodness" cannot save us.
    Now I'm supposed to be taking a break from DP.

    But I'm really inspired to ask.

    This is a purely philosophical question.

    If a lets say, Athiest spends his whole life working for AID agencies, helping starving children in Africa. Seflessly. But never accepts Christ, he goes to hell for that?

    And a dude in Oklohama spends his whole life doing nothing. But accepts christ, and asks for forgiveness. He will go to heaven?

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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I think the Bible is extremely clear that you do have to repent, and that being good can't atone for sin. Jesus Himself said that many will be before Him and sent to hell for their sin even though they have claimed to follow Christ and did some good things. What matters is sin, and only Christ can remove and forgive sin. Our works and "goodness" cannot save us.
    I don't think you're getting it. If you're otherwise living the righteous life, you are deemed "righteous" in the eyes of God.

    Kneeling and making a prayer for forgiveness is not required.

  5. #35
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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Now I'm supposed to be taking a break from DP.

    But I'm really inspired to ask.

    This is a purely philosophical question.

    If a lets say, Athiest spends his whole life working for AID agencies, helping starving children in Africa. Seflessly. But never accepts Christ, he goes to hell for that?

    And a dude in Oklohama spends his whole life doing nothing. But accepts christ, and asks for forgiveness. He will go to heaven?
    Obviously. It's the first and greatest commandment, it says so in the text. So all else is salvation fail if you don't honour it. Getting into heaven isn't about hard work and personal cost necessarily, it's about following the rules.

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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Now I'm supposed to be taking a break from DP.

    But I'm really inspired to ask.

    This is a purely philosophical question.

    If a lets say, Athiest spends his whole life working for AID agencies, helping starving children in Africa. Seflessly. But never accepts Christ, he goes to hell for that?

    And a dude in Oklohama spends his whole life doing nothing. But accepts christ, and asks for forgiveness. He will go to heaven?
    According to one of the Catholic priests who taught me in high school - yes. He told us that "good" works do nothing for you if you don't accept Christ (even if you are the kindest, most charitable person in the world). In his words, "You can be the most loving person in the world, but if you don't accept Christ and repent, you're going straight to the flames."

    On the other hand, if you accept Jesus and repent, then you can do whatever you want and go straight to Heaven.

    He didn't do a very good job of selling the religion.

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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    God's word is infallible, but I don't know about anyone else but I have never heard the words of God. All I have ever heard are the words in the Bible written by people many years after the fact, or by Priests or Pastors based on what they read in the Bible and then interpret.

    The Bible needs to be taken as a guide line with general rules and metaphors for us to live by.

    If we did nothing else we would live by the Golden Rule which is the same in at least 21 religions that I an aware of.

    Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

    If we all did this we would see an end to war murder all fighting etc.

    Some things I know to be true and others i just believe.

    I died for several minutes in 1984 and had an OBE in connection with the NDE so I know there is more after this life is over.

    I also know that we can have Hell right here on earth, because I have lived it, when I let things others did get to me until I remembered that Christ Jesus died for my sins and made it possible for me see there is more out there for me if I trust in him and not let the sins of others affect what I do and feel.

    A Priest and a Pastor who refuse to celebrate in the joining of two hearts have missed the point of Christianity and are judging rather than embracing it with the love Jesus would have.

    I am not extremely religious, however I consider myself to be Spiritual and open to most everything.

    We need to read the Bible and always ask what is it saying, because it's not to be taken work for word or we end up Radicals. Also I believe the New Testament was created as a reform because if you have read the whole Bible you know there was a major shift in attitude from the old to the new Testaments.

    One used threats and intimidation and the New uses Love and welcoming to gain compliance.

    Sorry to go on so long but this is what I believe.
    I believe the Bible is the Word of God, and therefore infallible. I believe those that have studied, translated, re-translated, interpreted, preached, listened and re-studied are but mere mortals. Each limited in knowledge and understanding and inherently corruptible. In other words, the Bible is correct; our understanding of it is flawed.

    2 Timothy 3:16:

    New International Version (1984)
    All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

    New Living Translation (2007)
    All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right.

    That all said, in my studies, I find the conventional understanding of Hell as not really being particularly based on the Bible, but rather handed down through the ages by the Roman Catholic church more in line with Dante's Inferno. Though one can construct the Roman Catholic version out of certain passages, they also can be interpreted to support the notion that the sinner dies an eternal death (the concept that wages of sin are death is very clear), while the saved enjoy eternal life in the Kingdom. I think its human nature for us Christians to think that our denial of some things that others engage in will be rewarded and they will be punished, but that is our warped view of fairness, not necessarily God's.

    While you are in the Word rebuking my construct of Hell, also show me where it talks about going to Heaven immediately after death, another common view that really has very sketchy, at best, biblical support....and far more passages that completely refute this construct.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 03-25-11 at 11:37 AM.

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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Last time I checked, only God can judge. This pastor is committing blasphemy, big time.

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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    It's the same god, and people aren't perfect. I think god knows we can be mislead, so if one church is misled (and most probably are), then I don't think it's an unforgivable sin.

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    Re: Who's in hell? Pastor's book sparks eternal debate

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I think the Bible is extremely clear that you do have to repent, and that being good can't atone for sin. Jesus Himself said that many will be before Him and sent to hell for their sin even though they have claimed to follow Christ and did some good things. What matters is sin, and only Christ can remove and forgive sin. Our works and "goodness" cannot save us.
    Isn't repenting the Catholic view?
    Last edited by SheWolf; 03-25-11 at 12:12 PM.

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