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Thread: Bomb explodes at Jerusalem bus stop; 25 wounded

  1. #61
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    Re: Bomb explodes at Jerusalem bus stop; 25 wounded

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    I was directly quoting your words, your decision to withdraw from them instead of standing for what you said merely points out that you too understand you were wrong. Fine with me.
    You twisted my words:

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse
    You've claimed that terrorism is merely a term that is meant to classify people "we" (probably the West) believes are the bad guys. Thus you have clearly refused to recognize that terrorism does exist and that actions such as the one discussed in this thread are indeed acts of terrorism.
    And then quote me as if it support your twisted interpretation and follow it with another emotional appeal.

    What English teacher taught you that: 'labels like terrorists are meant to classify the "good guy" VS the "bad guy"' = "clearly refused to recognize that terrorism does exist and that actions such as the one discussed in this thread are indeed acts of terrorism"? At this point, I don't know if your problem is with logic or comprehension.

    What next, you are going to claim I "refused to recognize" that "Murder" exists because I said the term is used by the pro-life to attack the pro-choice?

    It's not surprising that you quote me out of context either. I clearly referred to how the family of those killed by Americans might feel:

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil
    America drops bombs that has killed thousand of innocents - to you that's war and collateral damage, to the family of those people, what's the difference between getting killed in their village VS in a bus to work? Why wouldn't they think Americans are the terrorists?
    Answer the question: to those people, how is the fact that the people who killed their family members are military changes the reality of losing their loved ones? Have not American planes ever drop bombs that they know will kill innocent people? Why are these people less entitled to view American pilots as "terrorist" than the family of the 911 victims? Is their loss less significant? But are American pilots "terrorist"? God no. That's why the term is a subjective emotional appeal in most cases.


    And to cap it off you put another spin on what I say:

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse
    So basically you're saying that as long as a person, an individual, is not caught and judged in a court of law and is found guilty for acts of terrorism or conspiring to commit acts of terrorism an action cannot be considered terrorism. And that's after you've claimed that terrorism is merely meant to classify the people we consider to be the bad guys. You don't seem to be decisive here.
    No where did I say that "as long as a person, an individual, is not caught and judged in a court of law and is found guilty for acts of terrorism or conspiring to commit acts of terrorism an action cannot be considered terrorism", "basically" or not. I don't even know where that come from, and I can't respond to such illogical reasoning because I can't follow such gaps in logic.


    I can stand for what I say, but I hate wasting my time with people who prefer to spin and is dishonest.
    Last edited by nonpareil; 03-25-11 at 08:44 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

  2. #62
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    Re: Bomb explodes at Jerusalem bus stop; 25 wounded

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    You twisted my words:



    And then quote me as if it support your twisted interpretation and follow it with another emotional appeal.

    What English teacher taught you that: 'labels like terrorists are meant to classify the "good guy" VS the "bad guy"' = "clearly refused to recognize that terrorism does exist and that actions such as the one discussed in this thread are indeed acts of terrorism"? At this point, I don't know if your problem is with logic or comprehension.

    What next, you are going to claim I "refused to recognize" that "Murder" exists because I said the term is used by the pro-life to attack the pro-choice?
    Not at all, but were you to claim that "Murderer is a label that is meant to classify the 'good guys' vs the 'bad guys', it means nothing" then indeed it would mean just that. It would have been just as absurd as your claim about terrorism.

    You cannot compare the killing of civilians as an accident of warfare to a deliberate murder of innocent uninvolved civilians due to their nationality, from the same reason that you cannot compare the stabbing of a sleeping person to death and the killing of another person as a result of a road accident.
    You may claim that the victim's family suffering will be the same in both (even though I think it's wrong) but that would not change the fact that one is a murderer and one is a person who has killed another in an accident.
    Likewise, would not change the fact that one is a terrorist and one is a person who killed another in an accident during warfare.

    Answer the question: to those people, how is the fact that the people who killed their family members are military changes the reality of losing their loved ones? Have not American planes ever drop bombs that they know will kill innocent people? Why are these people less entitled to view American pilots as "terrorist" than the family of the 911 victims? Is their loss less significant? But are American pilots "terrorist"? God no. That's why the term is a subjective emotional appeal in most cases.
    I have already pointed out the absurdity in that claim of yours.
    One casualty is an accident and another is a deliberate murder for political causes.
    If we are to suggest that the two are the same, that there is no difference between terrorism and the killing of civilians by mistake during warfare, then we would abandon any kind of moral sense and would might as well claim that there is no difference between a man who kills another by accident and a man who murders. That is the meaning of your words from every single perspective, there is no denying to that, and that is what I am disgusted with.


    I can stand for what I say, but I hate wasting my time with people who prefer to spin and is dishonest.
    It doesn't seem like you can stand for what you say, since you've chosen to be dishonest about your own words.
    Last edited by Apocalypse; 03-25-11 at 12:05 PM.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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  3. #63
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    Re: Bomb explodes at Jerusalem bus stop; 25 wounded

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Not at all, but were you to claim that "Murderer is a label that is meant to classify the 'good guys' vs the 'bad guys', it means nothing" then indeed it would mean just that. It would have been just as absurd as your claim about terrorism.
    That's exactly what the pro-life does, it's to classify them as the "Good guys" and the pro-choice as the "bad guys". So I do say that it means nothing in that context and it still doesn't mean that I'm saying that "Murder" doesn't exist. Saying something is misused is just not the same as saying something doesn't exist.


    You cannot compare the killing of civilians as an accident of warfare to a deliberate murder of innocent uninvolved civilians due to their nationality, from the same reason that you cannot compare the stabbing of a sleeping person to death and the killing of another person as a result of a road accident.
    You may claim that the victim's family suffering will be the same in both (even though I think it's wrong) but that would not change the fact that one is a murderer and one is a person who has killed another in an accident.

    Likewise, would not change the fact that one is a terrorist and one is a person who killed another in an accident during warfare.
    That's where you're wrong. You can have a second degree murder from a car accident. Accused drunken driver charged with second-degree murder in five-car crash in Ypsilanti Township - AnnArbor.com

    So, I give you credit for actually trying to make a proper arguement, but it's still wrong.




    I have already pointed out the absurdity in that claim of yours.

    No you have not.

    One casualty is an accident and another is a deliberate murder for political causes.
    And how is that different to the victim family?

    If we are to suggest that the two are the same, that there is no difference between terrorism and the killing of civilians by mistake during warfare, then we would abandon any kind of moral sense and would might as well claim that there is no difference between a man who kills another by accident and a man who murders. That is the meaning of your words from every single perspective, there is no denying to that, and that is what I am disgusted with.
    Again back to the twisting, or maybe you just have a very illogical way to process information. No where did I say that "we would abandon any kind of moral sense and would might as well claim that there is no difference between a man who kills another by accident and a man who murders". That wasn't the meaning of my words from any perspective (well maybe except the illogcal ones you appear to pocess).

    Someone calling it Murder or not, terrorism or not, doesn't change the facts. Iraqis calling American pilots (some of whom drop bombs they know will kill innocent, not just by accident) doesn't change the facts or convince Americans that there pilots are terrorists, we calling that the insurgents terrorists doesn't mean the Iraqis agree with us. All it does it make it seems as if what "they" are doing is wrong but what "we" are doing is right. There's nothing "disgusting" in pointing that out. That kind of emotional appeal is illogical and distract from the facts. If our moral value is that killing someone with intent is wrong it's still wrong, calling it "collateral damage" or "terrorism" shouldn't make a difference. You wouldn't change your mind about the wrongness of this attack just because the Palestinians call it "collateral damage", would you?



    It doesn't seem like you can stand for what you say, since you've chosen to be dishonest about your own words.
    Except I have not been dishonest.
    Last edited by nonpareil; 03-25-11 at 11:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

  4. #64
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    Re: Bomb explodes at Jerusalem bus stop; 25 wounded

    Moderator's Warning:
    Bomb explodes at Jerusalem bus stop; 25 woundedLet's dispense with the personal rhetoric.

    אשכנזי היהודי Белый Россию

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