Page 9 of 16 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 154

Thread: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed Air

  1. #81
    Basketball Nerd
    StillBallin75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vilseck, Germany
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 07:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    21,896

    Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    That's probably because you're just a ****ing kid and don't have near enough life experience to grasp most of the things I say.

    One day you may learn--as I did--that when your parents told you that, "children should be seen and not heard", that they were actually trying to teach you an important life lesson and not just being, "parents".
    Nah, it's cuz most of the other stuff you post is bull****. And plenty of non-kids on this forum agree with that assessment.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  2. #82
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Ft. Campbell, KY
    Last Seen
    12-31-14 @ 08:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    12,177

    Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I think that should be extended to the lives of the downed air crew as well, which makes things a bit more complicated.
    I forgot to add they also must ask did he have a reasonable understanding of the situation. Going back to the infantryman if he sees a kid running towards him with a stick and shots him, and attempts to argue he thought it was a rifle and therefore felt threatened and fired, his court martial may actually agree he felt threatened but state you're still guilty because you misread the situation so poorly. IE, you're a moron.

  3. #83
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,402

    Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Nah, it's cuz most of the other stuff you post is bull****. And plenty of non-kids on this forum agree with that assessment.
    Yeah, that's it. You got all the answers at, 20-what?

  4. #84
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,402

    Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I forgot to add they also must ask did he have a reasonable understanding of the situation. Going back to the infantryman if he sees a kid running towards him with a stick and shots him, and attempts to argue he thought it was a rifle and therefore felt threatened and fired, his court martial may actually agree he felt threatened but state you're still guilty because you misread the situation so poorly. IE, you're a moron.
    Or, it could just be, "the fog of war".

  5. #85
    Basketball Nerd
    StillBallin75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vilseck, Germany
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 07:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    21,896

    Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Yeah, that's it. You got all the answers at, 20-what?
    I hate getting in a pissing match, but I'll bite. I might be a kid but I'm certainly knowledgeable enough to know that Japan apologized for their actions during WWII and that Judaism is a religion...And like I said, I'm not the only one.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 03-24-11 at 02:00 AM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  6. #86
    Baby Eating Monster
    Korimyr the Rat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Laramie, WY
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 02:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    18,709
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    So then are you saying we are attacking Kaddafi but hes not a terrorist or that if an American is a terrorist he shouldnt be stopped?
    My understanding of Gadaffi's alleged ties to terrorist activity is not complete enough to venture an opinion. My understand of our intervention in Libya is that it is based in the belief that the Libyan rebels represent the legitimate will of the Libyan people and that we are attempting to assist them in establishing control of the region. It's possible that we are merely destroying Libyan government assets in order to mitigate an impending humanitarian crisis. I'm comfortable with this mission because I do not consider it so much morally wrong as it is strategically inadvisable.

    We are attacking Gadaffi's forces because there are two sides of this conflict and we have chosen one.

    It is my position that we should not stop American terrorists who are acting under legitimate orders from their chain-of-command or American terrorists who are helping to achieve our foreign policy goals, whether directly or indirectly. This incident appears at this time to be a simple wartime misunderstanding of the sort that is known and expected to occur in any war zone. If the American pilot is found to have fired on civilians maliciously and in contradiction to our objectives, I would support appropriate discipline, but I see no evidence to suspect that this is the case.

  7. #87
    Basketball Nerd
    StillBallin75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Vilseck, Germany
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 07:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    21,896

    Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I forgot to add they also must ask did he have a reasonable understanding of the situation. Going back to the infantryman if he sees a kid running towards him with a stick and shots him, and attempts to argue he thought it was a rifle and therefore felt threatened and fired, his court martial may actually agree he felt threatened but state you're still guilty because you misread the situation so poorly. IE, you're a moron.
    I think those criteria are fair.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  8. #88
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,402

    Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I hate getting in a pissing match, but I'll bite. I might be a kid but I'm certainly knowledgeable enough to know that Japan apologized for their actions during WWII and that Judaism is a religion...And like I said, I'm not the only one.
    Hey dude, I get it...you got it all figgered out. Keep on keepin' on, bro.

  9. #89
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Ft. Campbell, KY
    Last Seen
    12-31-14 @ 08:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    12,177

    Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Or, it could just be, "the fog of war".
    Ya thats all the what ifs I was talking about, I'm sure in the right circumstances a stick could make a convincing rifle, maybe it was a low visability enviroment. I was just trying to provide an example of a case where feeling threanted wasn't enough and show any court martial also has to understand how well/poorly the person in question understood his enviroment measured against what they could reasonably expect him to understand about his enviroment given the situation. ie, was it low visability, literal fog, was he half conscious from the crash, etc.

  10. #90
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,402

    Re: U.S. rescue chopper shoots six Libyan villagers as they welcome pilots of downed

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Ya thats all the what ifs I was talking about, I'm sure in the right circumstances a stick could make a convincing rifle, maybe it was a low visability enviroment. I was just trying to provide an example of a case where feeling threanted wasn't enough and show any court martial also has to understand how well/poorly the person in question understood his enviroment measured against what they could reasonably expect him to understand about his enviroment given the situation. ie, was it low visability, literal fog, was he half conscious from the crash, etc.
    Then, the court martial factors in the fact that the decision had to be made in less than 3 seconds and now we have a different ball game.

    In combat, you react, you don't think, there's no time to think.

Page 9 of 16 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •