• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

You guys think, the rebels are disorganized?

What about Nato allies???....British military officers will be sent to Libya to advise rebels fighting Gaddafi's forces, but PM Cameron insists that Britain will not send ground forces into Libya but conceded the limits set by the UN resolution were making the campaign more difficult then Axel Poniatowski, chairman of France's foreign affairs committee, warned the Nato campaign could become bogged down unless allies put boots on the ground

Its one big cluster**** with no way out and Obama is in the middle
 
huh? how could a commercial aircraft, expected to kill a president, ever get past one of our aircraft carriers and lived to chuckle about it again?

Seriously? You really don't understand this? I wasn't suggesting the aircraft was going to attack our fleet or fly all the way to the US.

Commercial aircraft came and went out of Baghdad even with a NFZ.

How are we supposed to stop a terrorist getting on a plane and flying out of Iraq?
 
Seriously? You really don't understand this? I wasn't suggesting the aircraft was going to attack our fleet or fly all the way to the US.

Commercial aircraft came and went out of Baghdad even with a NFZ.

How are we supposed to stop a terrorist getting on a plane and flying out of Iraq?


Easy...Like this....






j-mac
 
Have we been attacked by any plane flying out of Bagdad? Iran? Afghanistan? So while I know there is an issue about airport security, a minor one, the fact is we are not one bit safer for invading any country. It's a false premise, a false choice, and a false argument. Invading does nothing to fight terrorism or make us safer.
 
Have we been attacked by any plane flying out of Bagdad? Iran? Afghanistan? So while I know there is an issue about airport security, a minor one, the fact is we are not one bit safer for invading any country. It's a false premise, a false choice, and a false argument. Invading does nothing to fight terrorism or make us safer.

Tens of thousands of dead jihadis has made us safer.

And once again you have deliberately ignored a very simple point a child could understand.

It isn't the plane Boo. It's the terrorists on it who intend to do us harm. Once they fly out of Iraq they can go anywhere they want by plane, boat or train.

It's unbelieveable how dishonest you are.
 
In a new development that suggests that there may be little difference between the Gadhafi and anti-Gadhafi elements in terms of their concern for the welfare of civilians, the BBC reported revealed that the rebels were laying mines near Ajdabiya. Previously, Col. Gadhafi's forces had been using mines and cluster munitions. The BBC reported:

The BBC filmed rebels planting anti-vehicle mines near the key town of Ajdabiya at the weekend.

Human Rights Watch researchers said mines had been laid despite rebel assurances they would not be used.

BBC News - Libya conflict: Rebels accused of reneging on mines vow
 
Tens of thousands of dead jihadis has made us safer.

And once again you have deliberately ignored a very simple point a child could understand.

It isn't the plane Boo. It's the terrorists on it who intend to do us harm. Once they fly out of Iraq they can go anywhere they want by plane, boat or train.

It's unbelieveable how dishonest you are.

10's of Jihadist were killed, creating hundreds of jihadist who were killed, creating thousand of jihadist who were killed (all, along with family members), creating.... Image you are a simple baker working down at Wonder Bread. Iraqi bombs kill your family. Do you stay a simple baker? Or do you take up arms and join the resistance? Violence begets violence and death begets more death.
 
10's of Jihadist were killed, creating hundreds of jihadist who were killed, creating thousand of jihadist who were killed (all, along with family members), creating.... Image you are a simple baker working down at Wonder Bread. Iraqi bombs kill your family. Do you stay a simple baker? Or do you take up arms and join the resistance? Violence begets violence and death begets more death.

Yes, we are fighting an idea. No, it is not possible to erradicate terrorism as a tactic or even a strategy 100% - it has always existed and it always will. The US calls it the "War on Terrorism" so as to not inflame the Muslims, but we all not what it really is - it is a Jihad on the Jihad.

Conflict is the natural state of man. the world has never been at peace for even a single day. If it weren't there, it would be somewhere else.

Deal with it
 
10's of Jihadist were killed, creating hundreds of jihadist who were killed, creating thousand of jihadist who were killed (all, along with family members), creating.... Image you are a simple baker working down at Wonder Bread. Iraqi bombs kill your family. Do you stay a simple baker? Or do you take up arms and join the resistance? Violence begets violence and death begets more death.

Fact. Religion, money, land, and oil are no excuse for their actions or ours.
 
Moving back from the rebels' Gadhafi-esque approach of endangering civilian lives by laying mines to their gross incompetence, today's edition of The New York Times revealed:

The first question the British will face is “Whose army?”

For they will find themselves advising a ragtag rebel force that cannot even agree on who its top officer is, amid squabbling between two generals who both come with unsavory baggage.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/20/world/africa/20benghazi.html
 
10's of Jihadist were killed, creating hundreds of jihadist who were killed, creating thousand of jihadist who were killed (all, along with family members), creating.... Image you are a simple baker working down at Wonder Bread. Iraqi bombs kill your family. Do you stay a simple baker? Or do you take up arms and join the resistance? Violence begets violence and death begets more death.

The level of ignorance about Iraq continues to this very day. Few care to educate themselves.

The Iraqi people ("the simple baker") joined the coalition by the hundreds of thousands and fought for their country. But who cares about them right?

The only Iraqi's lefties care about are the ones who killed innocent people so they can blame their deaths on Bush.

If you know nothing about Iraq perhaps you should read before making such ignorant statements.
 
Tens of thousands of dead jihadis has made us safer.

And once again you have deliberately ignored a very simple point a child could understand.

It isn't the plane Boo. It's the terrorists on it who intend to do us harm. Once they fly out of Iraq they can go anywhere they want by plane, boat or train.

It's unbelieveable how dishonest you are.

Afraid not. It is quite likely we've added far more than we've killed. The number was small to begin with, and we helped it grow.

And no, the comment was a plane flying OUT of those countries. Remember, those on 9/11 were not out Iraq. They were't even out of Afghanistan. They were laregly out of Saudi Arabia. A terrorist can come from anywhere, and we have even seen American born terrorist. This is also a simple point. You don't stop a terrorist out of SA, or evne the US, by invading Iraq.

Ron, I try to keep it from the personal, but quite frankly, you're not one to speak of honesty. I'll leave it at that. :coffeepap
 
Afraid not. It is quite likely we've added far more than we've killed. The number was small to begin with, and we helped it grow.

You have no idea how many jihadis flooded into Iraq before and after OIF because you don't care to find out.

And no, the comment was a plane flying OUT of those countries. Remember, those on 9/11 were not out Iraq. They were't even out of Afghanistan. They were laregly out of Saudi Arabia. A terrorist can come from anywhere, and we have even seen American born terrorist. This is also a simple point. You don't stop a terrorist out of SA, or evne the US, by invading Iraq.

We sure as hell stopped the ones who went into Iraq to fight the coalition. Tens of thousands of them are dead.

And I'm talking about Saddam's terrorists who flew out of Iraq on commercial aircraft.

It's a simple point you continue to ignore.
 
No mention of the millions now living in peace and freedom.

You lefties would rather take cyanide than admit Bush was right.

Peace and freedom eh? Wasn't there a suicide bombing in Bagdad not so long ago? And if it's peace and freedom, we can pull out in full right? So a decade war which spent over a trillion dollars, cost us thousands of American lives, put our military in a position they shouldn't be in (police) was "right" because they now are living in peace and freedom according to you, huh? What was that thing you said earlier about making ignorant statements? Irony is funny.
 
You have no idea how many jihadis flooded into Iraq before and after OIF because you don't care to find out.

Actually i do, and the overwhelming majority were people who were not attached to or involved with any terrorist group pior to iraq. this means they were new recurits. It seems you are the one lacking in knowledge.

We sure as hell stopped the ones who went into Iraq to fight the coalition. Tens of thousands of them are dead.

And I'm talking about Saddam's terrorists who flew out of Iraq on commercial aircraft.

It's a simple point you continue to ignore.

Actually, most were iraqis. Look at your numbers again.

When did Saddam's terrorist fly out of Iraq and attack us. Be specific. You making up **** is not a point.
 
Peace and freedom eh? Wasn't there a suicide bombing in Bagdad not so long ago? And if it's peace and freedom, we can pull out in full right? So a decade war which spent over a trillion dollars, cost us thousands of American lives, put our military in a position they shouldn't be in (police) was "right" because they now are living in peace and freedom according to you, huh? What was that thing you said earlier about making ignorant statements? Irony is funny.

The Iraqi people are free and peaceful today because of OIF no matter how painful it is for some people to accept.

And yes, the majority of people posting about Iraq on this website obviously know very little about what happened there.
 
Actually i do, and the overwhelming majority were people who were not attached to or involved with any terrorist group pior to iraq. this means they were new recurits. It seems you are the one lacking in knowledge.



Actually, most were iraqis. Look at your numbers again.

When did Saddam's terrorist fly out of Iraq and attack us. Be specific. You making up **** is not a point.

So you were there, fighting on the front lines? Which side was that?
 
So you were there, fighting on the front lines? Which side was that?

You're a silly fellow. Instead of going down silly lane, how about you dispute me. As much as I have posted it in the past, I'm sure you've seen all the reports that back what I said.
 
You're a silly fellow. Instead of going down silly lane, how about you dispute me. As much as I have posted it in the past, I'm sure you've seen all the reports that back what I said.

I have seen this same argument some place else from another poster. Might you be that same poster?
 
The Iraqi people are free and peaceful today because of OIF no matter how painful it is for some people to accept.

And yes, the majority of people posting about Iraq on this website obviously know very little about what happened there.

Really?

Iraq Body Count (IBC) recorded 4,038 civilian deaths from violence in 2010 (compared to 4,686 in 2009).

(snip)

We noted in our 2009 analysis that our six-monthly data for that year ‘may indicate that the situation is no longer improving’. That somber observation is largely borne out by 2010’s data . . . .

(snip)

Taken as a whole and seen in the context of immediately preceding years, the 2010 data suggest a persistent low-level conflict in Iraq that will continue to kill civilians at a similar rate for years to come.

Civilian deaths from violence in 2010 :: Iraq Body Count
 
I have seen this same argument some place else from another poster. Might you be that same poster?

You've certainly seen this from me before, with documentation. As it is documented, and you have seen it, I'm not sure how you can challenge it.
 
Actually i do, and the overwhelming majority were people who were not attached to or involved with any terrorist group pior to iraq. this means they were new recurits. It seems you are the one lacking in knowledge.

The dummies who joined AQI are either dead or have rejected Al Qaeda in favor of a free and peaceful Iraq. Ever heard of the Sunni Awakening? Some recruiting bonana!

AQI has been decimated and our military leaders have stated there are only around 100 al Qaeda left in Afghanistan.

By fighting them we have decimated al Qaeda's ranks and we have captured documents suggesting they are having a lot difficulty recruiting replacements.

If you ever care to find out about the shift in Iraq and why it happened you will need to read The Strongest Tribe by Bing West.


Actually, most were iraqis. Look at your numbers again.

I know that. They are either dead or now on the side of the Iraqi Government and the coalition.

When did Saddam's terrorist fly out of Iraq and attack us. Be specific. You making up **** is not a point.

I never said that he did so stuff the BS Boo. Iraqi terrorists were sent out to kill innocent people. The IPP report confirms that.

Saddam wanted to send terrorists to the US to kill President Bush and they could have easily flown out on a commercial aircraft or simply driven across the border to get out of Iraq.

The US Navy positioned to "contain" Saddam as was suggested by MA, which is how this conversation started if you remember, would not have been able to do anything stop them.

See how easy that was?
 
If the Libyans want some humanitarian supplies, I would be fine with the US providing those especially if we don't impose any sort of a political test for people who wish to receive them. Whoever shows up hungry, we feed w/o regard to whom they support. I would support a condition that they cannot be active combatants though.

All of this as a short term project, not as a long-term commitment. I think that the long term benefits of such a short term project would be worth the costs.

I am very tepid [can you say that?] about using our aircraft and ships to engage in violent military actions--as opposed to helping with logistics for said humanitarian efforts.

I am opposed to sending our troops into harms way as a fighting force.

I honestly don't think that Iraq and Libya have very many meaningful parallels at all. I think that comparing them is, at best, misleading and serves only to cloud the issues surrounding both.
 
Last edited:
Really?

Iraq Body Count (IBC) recorded 4,038 civilian deaths from violence in 2010 (compared to 4,686 in 2009).

(snip)

We noted in our 2009 analysis that our six-monthly data for that year ‘may indicate that the situation is no longer improving’. That somber observation is largely borne out by 2010’s data . . . .

(snip)

Taken as a whole and seen in the context of immediately preceding years, the 2010 data suggest a persistent low-level conflict in Iraq that will continue to kill civilians at a similar rate for years to come.

Civilian deaths from violence in 2010 :: Iraq Body Count

I know all about IBC and who they are.

I also know that AQI has been virtually wiped out.
 
Back
Top Bottom