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Thread: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    J, it's easy addition. We killed iraqis. They were not part of the terrorist groups we're talking about, so they can't count as killing those terrorist. The numbers in all the reports say only 5% of those who came to Iraq had any connection to any terrorist group prior to coming to Iraq, so they and the iraqs are all new recruits. So, that means that only 5% of the %5 of foriegn fighters who were Iaq would fall under the stat of us killing terrorist who are not new. That means 95% are new recruits among those who came to Iraq, and all the Iraqis are new as they were not with Al Qaeda or any such group prior. It's simple addition.

    And j, I've posted those numbers for you many times over the years. Perhaps you should bookmark them so you have them.
    And they are now dead or on the side of the Iraqi Government. AQI has been decimated.

    And it sure is simple addition. They cannot fill their decimated ranks in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

    Kinda blows the "making more terrorists" theory of yours right out of the water.

    I swear this nonsense sounds very familiar. Almost like I heard it somewhere else by somone just like you.
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    And they are now dead or on the side of the Iraqi Government. AQI has been decimated.

    And it sure is simple addition. They cannot fill their decimated ranks in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

    Kinda blows the "making more terrorists" theory of yours right out of the water.

    I swear this nonsense sounds very familiar. Almost like I heard it somewhere else by somone just like you.
    No, Al Qaeda wasn't really touched in Iraq. Iraqis were. The CIA said in 2008, in Iraq, is was still al Qaeda's "largest regional affiliate." CIA Director Hayden - State of al Qaeda Today - Transcript | Atlantic Council

    But remember, those were made up of Iraqis. New recruits. Our enemy is hold up in Pakistan. They recruit from around the world and continue to do so. The CIA once said that the people trained in Iraq would be killing folks around the world for decades. You have a rainbow colored view of the mess we created.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, Al Qaeda wasn't really touched in Iraq.
    This nonsense is not true and you know that.

    AQI has been decimated and no liberal smoke screen will cover that up.

    OBL said Iraq was their central focus and they were soundly defeated there.

    The same thing is happening to them in Afghanistan.
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, Al Qaeda wasn't really touched in Iraq. Iraqis were. The CIA said in 2008, in Iraq, is was still al Qaeda's "largest regional affiliate." CIA Director Hayden - State of al Qaeda Today - Transcript | Atlantic Council

    But remember, those were made up of Iraqis. New recruits. Our enemy is hold up in Pakistan. They recruit from around the world and continue to do so. The CIA once said that the people trained in Iraq would be killing folks around the world for decades. You have a rainbow colored view of the mess we created.
    While I suspect it's true that the invasion of Iraq invigorated if not outright created aQI, aQI is past it's prime. They are their own worst enemies.

    The fact of the matter is that given their druthers, most people would lead a peaceful life making babies and taking care of their families. aQI's Knight Templar attitude calls for them to be against moderates--which means most everyone. They're really bankrupt morally and philosophically. W/o some great oppression, they have no leverage for appeal because they're gross and antithetical to the way most people would choose to lead their lives.

    Even today al Qaeda in Iraq remains that organization’s – al Qaeda’s – largest regional affiliate. It still can and does inflict damage. No matter what residual tactical strength it retains in Iraq, though, the most important point is that al Qaeda in Iraq is on the verge of strategic defeat. The U.S. military fought and the Iraqi people rejected the AQI-led insurgency. Al Qaeda lost its power when Iraqis came to see it for what it was – a terrorist organization waging war on the Iraqi people.
    Today, that flow of money, weapons and foreign fighters I talked about, that flow is greatly diminished. We don’t often hear al Qaeda’s senior leadership pointing to Iraq as the central front in their global battle. In fact, bleed-out from Iraq, the export or frequently what we see, the diversion of terrorists and their deadly capabilities, is as much a concern now as the ongoing threat of AQI attacks inside the country of Iraq itself. Many of the foreign fighters who have left Iraq over the past three years have frankly been frustrated by the lack of success, or disillusioned with al Qaeda’s ideas and tactics. Some have likely abandoned the fight altogether, and they’ve simply gone home to resume their lives. Others leave Iraq with hopes of building al Qaeda capacity elsewhere, and that might be Afghanistan or Lebanon on the Arabian Peninsula, North Africa, just to name a few examples. We even see some Iraq veterans involved in planning attacks in the West, in Europe and in the United States.
    Now, this bleed-out problem is one we have always known we would have to deal with. But I frankly take a great deal of personal consolation in knowing that that shift, that shift we’re seeing, is further evidence that al Qaeda in Iraq is failing.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    While I suspect it's true that the invasion of Iraq invigorated if not outright created aQI, aQI is past it's prime. They are their own worst enemies.

    The fact of the matter is that given their druthers, most people would lead a peaceful life making babies and taking care of their families. aQI's Knight Templar attitude calls for them to be against moderates--which means most everyone. They're really bankrupt morally and philosophically. W/o some great oppression, they have no leverage for appeal because they're gross and antithetical to the way most people would choose to lead their lives.

    Even today al Qaeda in Iraq remains that organization’s – al Qaeda’s – largest regional affiliate. It still can and does inflict damage. No matter what residual tactical strength it retains in Iraq, though, the most important point is that al Qaeda in Iraq is on the verge of strategic defeat. The U.S. military fought and the Iraqi people rejected the AQI-led insurgency. Al Qaeda lost its power when Iraqis came to see it for what it was – a terrorist organization waging war on the Iraqi people.
    Today, that flow of money, weapons and foreign fighters I talked about, that flow is greatly diminished. We don’t often hear al Qaeda’s senior leadership pointing to Iraq as the central front in their global battle. In fact, bleed-out from Iraq, the export or frequently what we see, the diversion of terrorists and their deadly capabilities, is as much a concern now as the ongoing threat of AQI attacks inside the country of Iraq itself. Many of the foreign fighters who have left Iraq over the past three years have frankly been frustrated by the lack of success, or disillusioned with al Qaeda’s ideas and tactics. Some have likely abandoned the fight altogether, and they’ve simply gone home to resume their lives. Others leave Iraq with hopes of building al Qaeda capacity elsewhere, and that might be Afghanistan or Lebanon on the Arabian Peninsula, North Africa, just to name a few examples. We even see some Iraq veterans involved in planning attacks in the West, in Europe and in the United States.
    Now, this bleed-out problem is one we have always known we would have to deal with. But I frankly take a great deal of personal consolation in knowing that that shift, that shift we’re seeing, is further evidence that al Qaeda in Iraq is failing.
    I don't disagree with you on the whole. My major point to him is that defeating Al Qaeda In Iraq is not equal to defeating Al Qaeda. That organization is still viable in Pakistan. Al Qaeda in Iraq was an Iraqi organization that would not have been there had we not invaded. The organization of al Qaeda benefitted from our invasion in more than a few ways. They got new recruits, the received on the job training, and they got to hurt us for a number of years. I doubt they expected to defeat us in Iraq, I doubt they expect to defeat us at all, as they really can never defeat us militarily. They can only hurt us, and they have.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    This nonsense is not true and you know that.

    AQI has been decimated and no liberal smoke screen will cover that up.

    OBL said Iraq was their central focus and they were soundly defeated there.

    The same thing is happening to them in Afghanistan.
    AQI (Iraqis) but not al Qeada. I'm trying to get you to see there is a difference between the two.

    In Afghanistan you're fighting someone different as well (Taliban). al Qaeda is in Pakistan. We're in Afghanistan because we're worried aboiut al Qaeda, who is in Pakistan, but we're not fighting al Qaeda directly there.
    Last edited by Boo Radley; 04-22-11 at 12:56 PM.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    More from the same source:

    But over the past year or so there is clear and mounting evidence that we have real cause for optimism. Some hard-line religious leaders are speaking out against al Qaedaís tactics and its ideology. Polling has shown that support for al Qaeda and bin Laden has fallen in many predominantly Muslim countries. In fact, more and more Muslims are pushing back against the senseless violence and flawed worldview of al Qaeda. Credible, influential voices are refuting al Qaedaís twisted justification for murdering innocents. These voices are tapping into doubts about al Qaeda that have always been there. People understand that most victims of terrorism are Muslim, and they ask a simple question: what justifies this?

    The answer from al Qaeda is one that a vast majority of people in the Islamic world simply now donít espouse. They donít support bin Ladenís caliphate, they donít want to be governed as the Afghan people were governed by the Taliban.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    AQI (Iraqis) but not al Qeada. I'm trying to get you to see there is a difference between the two.
    Oooh. Trying to get RM to see the difference between two related but different things...

    [popcornmunching]...
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Further and further from the ideals of the founders. The Republic is slipping through our fingers.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Further and further from the ideals of the founders. The Republic is slipping through our fingers.
    I'm not sure I'd go that far, but we do have to abandon our imperialistic efforts, which aren't all that new (think Hawaii).

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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