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Thread: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    preactive, presumptuous, predictive...

    whatever

    did you see THIS last week?

    Robert Gates: U.S. Troops could stay in Iraq past end date - Jennifer Epstein - POLITICO.com

    obama's DEFENSE SECTY, his BUSH HOLDOVER

    did you see GITMO in may of 09 and last fall and last december and last week?

    VINDICATION of dick the darth CHENEY

    do you remember the PATRIOT ACT and the DETENTION and the RENDITION?

    where's KSM?

    what became of the PROSECUTION OF THE CIA?

    you chose hope and change, you got BILL KRISTOL

    i mean, more power to ya, it's entirely your prerogative

    but exactly WHAT have you been looking at the last two years?

    y'know, on YOUR tv?

    party on, progressives

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    No, that's not what I mean at all. I'm talking about preventive war vs. preemptive war. Neither assumes the object of aggression is innocent. In fact, both assume that the object of aggression, in this case Saddam, is guilty of something. In conclusion, what are you talking about?
    Its time you face it. The folks in office have all had benefit of the same intel which was not doctored up by President Bush. It has been around way before President Bush was ever even in office. They (F.I.O.) felt there were threats in the ME and, when finally asked, they voted as a group to give the President the go ahead. They were conservative and liberal. There is no conspiracy here.

    Now, lets refresh your memory

    These earlier sound-bites echo President Bush's sentiments, however, they are often conveniently forgotten when accusations of "lies" come out. I wonder what evidence convinced them of these things and if it could be the same as that which President Bush was receiving?

    October 9th, 1999 Letter to President Clinton Signed by Senators Levin, Lieberman, Lautenberg, Dodd, Kerrey, Feinstein, Mikulski, Daschle, Breaux, Johnson, Inouye, Landrieu, Ford and Kerry -- all Democrats

    "We urge you, after consulting with Congress and consistent with the US Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions, including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."

    Joe Biden > August 4, 2002
    "This is a guy who is an extreme danger to the world, and this is a guy who is in every way possible seeking weapons of mass destruction."

    Chuck Schumer > October 10, 2002
    "It is Hussein's vigorous pursuit of biological, chemical and nuclear weapons, and his present and future potential support for terrorist acts and organizations that make him a danger to the people of the united states."

    John Kerry > January 23, 2003
    "Without question we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator leading an impressive regime. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he's miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. His consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction."

    Sandy Berger > February 18, 1998
    "He'll use those weapons of mass destruction again as he has 10 times since 1983."

    Senator Carl Levin > September 19, 2002
    "We begin with a common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations, is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."

    Senator Hillary Clinton > October 10, 2002
    "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock. His missile delivery capability, his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists including Al-Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."


    Madeleine Albright > November 10, 1999
    "Hussein has chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."

    Robert Byrd > October 3, 2002
    "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of '98. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons."

    Al Gore > September 23, 2002
    "Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter, and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."

    Joe Biden > August 4, 2002
    "I think he has anthrax. I have not seen any evidence that he has smallpox, but you hear them say, Tim (Russert), is the last smallpox outbreak in the world was in Iraq; ergo, he may have a strain."

    Bill Clinton > December 17, 1998
    "Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq.... Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors."

    Theres more but why bother?.....

    There's really no point to all of this. At the end of the day the liberals are STILL butt-hurt about President Clinton being impeached and want in some ****ed up way to return the favor.

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Its time you face it. The folks in office have all had benefit of the same intel which was not doctored up by President Bush. It has been around way before President Bush was ever even in office. They (F.I.O.) felt there were threats in the ME and, when finally asked, they voted as a group to give the President the go ahead. They were conservative and liberal. There is no conspiracy here.

    Now, lets refresh your memory

    These earlier sound-bites echo President Bush's sentiments, however, they are often conveniently forgotten when accusations of "lies" come out. I wonder what evidence convinced them of these things and if it could be the same as that which President Bush was receiving?

    October 9th, 1999 Letter to President Clinton Signed by Senators Levin, Lieberman, Lautenberg, Dodd, Kerrey, Feinstein, Mikulski, Daschle, Breaux, Johnson, Inouye, Landrieu, Ford and Kerry -- all Democrats

    "We urge you, after consulting with Congress and consistent with the US Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions, including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."

    Joe Biden > August 4, 2002
    "This is a guy who is an extreme danger to the world, and this is a guy who is in every way possible seeking weapons of mass destruction."

    Chuck Schumer > October 10, 2002
    "It is Hussein's vigorous pursuit of biological, chemical and nuclear weapons, and his present and future potential support for terrorist acts and organizations that make him a danger to the people of the united states."

    John Kerry > January 23, 2003
    "Without question we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator leading an impressive regime. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he's miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. His consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction."

    Sandy Berger > February 18, 1998
    "He'll use those weapons of mass destruction again as he has 10 times since 1983."

    Senator Carl Levin > September 19, 2002
    "We begin with a common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations, is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."

    Senator Hillary Clinton > October 10, 2002
    "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock. His missile delivery capability, his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists including Al-Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."

    Madeleine Albright > November 10, 1999
    "Hussein has chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."

    Robert Byrd > October 3, 2002
    "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of '98. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons."

    Al Gore > September 23, 2002
    "Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter, and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."

    Joe Biden > August 4, 2002
    "I think he has anthrax. I have not seen any evidence that he has smallpox, but you hear them say, Tim (Russert), is the last smallpox outbreak in the world was in Iraq; ergo, he may have a strain."

    Bill Clinton > December 17, 1998
    "Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq.... Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors."

    Theres more but why bother?.....

    There's really no point to all of this. At the end of the day the liberals are STILL butt-hurt about President Clinton being impeached and want in some ****ed up way to return the favor.
    Please explain what any of this has to do with whether or not the Iraq War was a preventive war?

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Please explain what any of this has to do with whether or not the Iraq War was a preventive war?
    The Gulf War never actually "ended" as per say. Hostilities ceased when the coalition forces pushed the Iraqi army out of Kuwait in 1991. A provision of the cease fire was that Iraq have no NBC program. Inspections were agreed upon, to be administered by the UN. Iraq ended up kicking out the UN inspectors, which should have been the trigger for another Gulf War. Instead the UN and the United States waffled around on the subject. No one on either side disputes that Iraq under Saddam DID have an NBC program. The only debate was how extensive it was.

    The UN and the US congress both voted for the military incursion into Iraq. The UN did so in a series of their typical bull**** resolutions and ultimatums. ...But they did so never the less.

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    The Gulf War never actually "ended" as per say. Hostilities ceased when the coalition forces pushed the Iraqi army out of Kuwait in 1991. A provision of the cease fire was that Iraq have no NBC program. Inspections were agreed upon, to be administered by the UN. Iraq ended up kicking out the UN inspectors, which should have been the trigger for another Gulf War. Instead the UN and the United States waffled around on the subject. No one on either side disputes that Iraq under Saddam DID have an NBC program. The only debate was how extensive it was.

    The UN and the US congress both voted for the military incursion into Iraq. The UN did so in a series of their typical bull**** resolutions and ultimatums. ...But they did so never the less.
    Thank you for explaining your position. Nevertheless, with your explanation, which I for the most part agree with, Iraq still remains a preventive war because Iraq posed no imminent threat to the United States (i.e. it was not posturing to attack us). It was a preventive war because we went in in order to prevent them from getting enough weapons to attack and getting in the position to attack the United States or others.

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Thank you for explaining your position. Nevertheless, with your explanation, which I for the most part agree with, Iraq still remains a preventive war because Iraq posed no imminent threat to the United States (i.e. it was not posturing to attack us). It was a preventive war because we went in in order to prevent them from getting enough weapons to attack and getting in the position to attack the United States or others.
    There was no need for an "imminent threat" provision because the Gulf War had never officially ended. The queation of imminent threat would only apply, in recent times, to Libya. At least that's the leg BHO must supposedly stand on.

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    There was no need for an "imminent threat" provision because the Gulf War had never officially ended.
    So you have changed your mind about the War Powers Resolution requiring an imminent threat now that you know the WPR applies to Iraq?
    Also, I don't think that we declared war in re Desert Storm. Further, iirc, regime change was not mentioned in the UNSC resolutions in Iraq pre-OIF.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    There was no need for an "imminent threat" provision because the Gulf War had never officially ended. The queation of imminent threat would only apply, in recent times, to Libya. At least that's the leg BHO must supposedly stand on.
    There was a first gulf war and a second gulf war. They were two separate wars with completely different causes. The second gulf war was a preventive war.

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    I have posted the irrefutable evidence to you and others on several occasions.

    Some of the intelligence was crappy and wrong. Itís the stuff they got right and the WMD programs missed by UN inspectors thatís a bit more difficult to explain away.

    UNSCOM, UNMOVIC and the ISG reports are irrefutable and provide overwhelming evidence.

    So far not a single one of you hoaxers have even tried to explain what was found in Iraq. You just ignore it.



    Kofi was not the President of the US. It doesn't matter what his opinion is.

    His weapons inspectors proved Saddam was in violation of numerous resolutions.

    The "illegal war" nonsense was a hoax. We don't need UN approval to do anything. Get over it.
    I like the unlikely source of the proof of WMD: Wikileaks documents show WMDs found in Iraq ę Hot Air

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Candice Lynn View Post
    I like the unlikely source of the proof of WMD: Wikileaks documents show WMDs found in Iraq ę Hot Air
    Which would matter if that was ever Bush's claim. From you link: While the invasion of Iraq didn’t find huge stockpiles of new WMDs . . . ..

    The point has always been that Bush claimed a growing, active program creating new wmds. So, prodiving something to back a claim not in contention is, well, fruitless and kind of silly.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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