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Thread: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

  1. #441
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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's already been in threads, it may have been this one. Are you trying to tell me Mr Deflection, that at the time we went into Iraq, Iraq had the capability of say launching a WMD from Iraq and hitting New York or LA? Really?
    How many times are you going to say this when you know it isn't true?

    Saddam was working with terrorists affiliated with al Qaeda who had every intention of attacking Americans "anywhere in the world".

    I posted the findings of the IPP report and you ignored it Ikari. Why?
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    How many times are you going to say this when you know it isn't true?

    Saddam was working with terrorists affiliated with al Qaeda who had every intention of attacking Americans "anywhere in the world".

    I posted the findings of the IPP report and you ignored it Ikari. Why?
    He was not working with Al Qaeda.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    How many times are you going to say this when you know it isn't true?

    Saddam was working with terrorists affiliated with al Qaeda who had every intention of attacking Americans "anywhere in the world".

    I posted the findings of the IPP report and you ignored it Ikari. Why?
    We went through this in the other thread. Saddam was minimally involved with terrorists, they didn't have their run in Iraq. Saddam was in charge and if he agreed with what they were doing, he may provide some amount of support. At the time, Iraq did not have a single weapon platform capable of hitting the US proper.

    Do you get tired of being wrong or do you think that if you lie enough people will eventually take it for truth.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    We went through this in the other thread. Saddam was minimally involved with terrorists, they didn't have their run in Iraq. Saddam was in charge and if he agreed with what they were doing, he may provide some amount of support. At the time, Iraq did not have a single weapon platform capable of hitting the US proper.

    Do you get tired of being wrong or do you think that if you lie enough people will eventually take it for truth.
    We didn't go throught it. You brushed it off as no big deal.

    And he didn't need a "weapons platform". He had willing terrorists at his disposal.

    He was willing to work with a terrorist group affilliated with al Qaeda. We know they are quite capable of attacking the US and have tried many times since 9/11.


    Captured Iraqi documents have uncovered evidence that links the regime of Saddam Hussein to regional and global terrorism, including a variety of revolutionary, liberation, nationalist, and Islamic terrorist organizations. While these documents do not reveal direct coordination and assistance between the Saddam regime and the al Qaeda network, they do indicate that Saddam was willing to use, albeit cautiously, operatives affiliated with al Qaeda as long as Saddam could have these terrorist–operatives monitored closely. Because Saddam’s security organizations and Osama bin Laden’s terrorist network operated with similar aims (at least in the short term), considerable overlap was inevitable when monitoring, contacting, financing, and training the same outside groups. This created both the appearance of and, in some ways, a “de facto” link between the organizations. At times, these organizations would work together in pursuit of shared goals but still maintain their autonomy and independence because of innate caution and mutual distrust. Though the execution of Iraqi terror plots was not always successful, evidence shows that Saddam’s use of terrorist tactics and his support for terrorist groups remained strong up until the collapse of the regime.
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    He was not working with Al Qaeda.
    Who told you that?

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Who told you that?
    The "Bush Lied" fairy.
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Who told you that?
    There's plenty of information of this.

    Iraq and Al Qaeda are not obvious allies. In fact, they are natural enemies. A central tenet of Al Qaeda's jihadist ideology is that secular Muslim rulers and their regimes have oppressed the believers and plunged Islam into a historic crisis. Hence, a paramount goal of Islamist revolutionaries for almost half a century has been the destruction of the regimes of such leaders as Presidents Gamal Abdel Nasser, Anwar el-Sadat and Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, President Hafez al-Assad of Syria, the military government in Algeria and even the Saudi royal family.


    Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda Are Not Allies - Op-Ed - NYTimes.com

    (AP) Saddam Hussein's government did not cooperate with al Qaeda prior to the U.S. invasion of Iraq, the U.S. Defense Department said in a report based on interrogations of the deposed leader and two of his former aides.

    Pentagon: No Saddam-Al Qaeda Link - CBS News

    The Sept. 11 commission reported yesterday that it has found no "collaborative relationship" between Iraq and al Qaeda, challenging one of the Bush administration's main justifications for the war in Iraq.

    Al Qaeda-Hussein Link Is Dismissed (washingtonpost.com)

    Just the first three links ot a search. Misinformation is always hard to get rid of. You can't convince someone of what they think they already know. Bush and his people worked hard to create this misinofrmation, and sites like the WS and NRO worked hard to help repeat it. But there was never anything of significants that would be called a working relationship. Over the years each and every misinformative effort has been addressed, but many still hold to the misinformation.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Who told you that?
    http://www.foia.cia.gov/docs/DOC_000...0001245667.pdf
    The cases of WMD and Iraq's links to al-Qa'ida illustrate two different responses to policy pressure. In the case of al-Qa'ida, the constant stream of questions aimed at finding links between Saddam and the terrorist network caused analysts take what they termed a “purposely aggressive approach” in conducting exhaustive and repetitive searches for such links. Despite the pressure, however, the Intelligence Community remained firm in its assessment that no operational or collaborative relationship existed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    And he didn't need a "weapons platform". He had willing terrorists at his disposal.
    He was willing to work with a terrorist group affilliated with al Qaeda. We know they are quite capable of attacking the US and have tried many times since 9/11.
    But he wasn't willing to work with them to attack the US. The best info available at tehe time was that Iraq was not likely to initiate an attack on the US directly or via proxy


    also:http://www.foia.cia.gov/docs/DOC_000...0001245667.pdf
    The cases of WMD and Iraq's links to al-Qa'ida illustrate two different responses to policy pressure. In the case of al-Qa'ida, the constant stream of questions aimed at finding links between Saddam and the terrorist network caused analysts take what they termed a “purposely aggressive approach” in conducting exhaustive and repetitive searches for such links. Despite the pressure, however, the Intelligence Community remained firm in its assessment that no operational or collaborative relationship existed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    Captured Iraqi documents have uncovered evidence that links the regime of Saddam Hussein to regional and global terrorism, including a variety of revolutionary, liberation, nationalist, and Islamic terrorist organizations. While these documents do not reveal direct coordination and assistance between the Saddam regime and the al Qaeda network, they do indicate that Saddam was willing to use, albeit cautiously, operatives affiliated with al Qaeda as long as Saddam could have these terrorist–operatives monitored closely. Because Saddam’s security organizations and Osama bin Laden’s terrorist network operated with similar aims (at least in the short term), considerable overlap was inevitable when monitoring, contacting, financing, and training the same outside groups. This created both the appearance of and, in some ways, a “de facto” link between the organizations. At times, these organizations would work together in pursuit of shared goals but still maintain their autonomy and independence because of innate caution and mutual distrust. Though the execution of Iraqi terror plots was not always successful, evidence shows that Saddam’s use of terrorist tactics and his support for terrorist groups remained strong up until the collapse of the regime.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Nice little personal insult.
    What? Wait a minute....read it again pal, I didn't insult you personally. I took aim at your vapid stance of get out of our partners what we can, but when it comes to working with them so that the ME doesn't unravel, then screw them.

    Good to see you're debating skill hasn't improved.
    bite me.

    You used as justification of our act that SA put a lot of pressure on us. But that's a horrible, theocratic dictatorship. The majority of the 9/11 bombers came from there. They have oil, that's it. We are not ideologically aligned with them. You can make maybe a bit of an argument for that with Israel given its government, but not SA. SA is a hellhole of a country with a brutal government.
    Again, given the choice I am sure you would agree with me that being self sufficient in terms of our energy would make us all happy, but that isn't reality is it? And since you brought up Israel, what are we supposed to do there? watch Holocaust II?

    But don't let that stand in the way of your little petty insults you're left with since apparently your argument vaporized.
    Gheeze, grow up man, you are not that smart as you think you are.

    It's already been in threads, it may have been this one. Are you trying to tell me Mr Deflection, that at the time we went into Iraq, Iraq had the capability of say launching a WMD from Iraq and hitting New York or LA? Really?
    It has? Then it should be NO problem for you to pull it up and post it so we can all see it? Or is this supposed to be one of those snipe hunts that takes a debate opponent out of the game when you are losing the argument?

    Obama is the same as Bush. They're both as greedy and incompetent. Support of the status quo is support of the status quo. You may not vote for one side of the same coin, but you support the coin.
    No, I would like to improve the parties from within, something you LaRouche voters don't understand.

    It's things we can do. If you just want to belittle and deflect instead of making an actual argument; then so be it. But that just reflects on your own intellect.
    Oh brother....If you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen.

    You seem to misunderstand, I don't want to buy any other State anything. We can have good economic and diplomatic relationships, we'll sell things and buy things; but that's where it ends. You want to pretend (edited to remove personal attack) that the social engineering is the worst part. It's not ideal, and it's best to control and constrain the government so that we can keep it in check. But nothing threatens long term liberty and freedom more than forever war, which is the situation we are setting up currently. Not only that, but forever war is costly as well. Y'all like to sit there and bitch left and right about our deficit, but the things which make the most sense to cut like these unnecessary wars, are the things your ilk will support. It's all "Cut NPR even though it will have no effect what so ever on our spending, but let's keep up with the wars we wasting trillions on and 1000's of American lives for no real purpose other than to establish a forever war thus lending credibility to the rapid expansion of government on all fronts".

    I think I just figured it out, you are for a borderless world aren't you?

    It's as dumb as it gets. Babies whom have consumed lead paint can see how dumb it is. But whatever floats your boat I guess.
    What was that you said about intellect? You're on display here pal.

    There's plenty of research to fund and technologies to improve. Drilling is only a short term solution.
    Really, care to share what is so promising out there?

    While we can certainly engage in it to immediately try to reduce dependencies, we need to also note that it is not the final solution.
    THEN WHY AREN'T WE???? Explain that.

    Merely a step in the direction of energy independence that will one day be replaced with something else.
    Like what? Wind? I tried that, couldn't even move my semi....NEXT!

    j-mac
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  10. #450
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    Re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    "Imminent threat" only comes into play if a President wants to start a war on an adversary and he has 60 days thereafter to take it to Congress with another possible 30 day extension.
    Did you know that the Iraq War resolution says it's the war powers act that authorizes it?
    So whatever restrictions you think the WP Resolutions impose, these restrictions are imposed on OIF.

    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-10...107publ243.htm
    AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARY FORCE AGAINST IRAQ RESOLUTION OF 2002
    SEC. 3. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.
    (c) War Powers Resolution Requirements.--
    (1) Specific statutory authorization.--Consistent with
    section 8(a)(1) of the War Powers Resolution
    , the Congress
    declares that this section is intended to constitute specific
    statutory authorization within the meaning of section 5(b) of
    the War Powers Resolution.
    (2) Applicability of other requirements.--Nothing in this
    joint resolution supersedes any requirement of the War Powers
    Resolution.
    SEC. 4. REPORTS TO CONGRESS.
    (b) Single Consolidated Report.--To the extent that the submission
    of any report described in subsection (a) coincides with the submission
    of any other report on matters relevant to this joint resolution
    otherwise required to be submitted to Congress pursuant to the reporting
    requirements of the War Powers Resolution (Public Law 93-148)
    , all such
    reports may be submitted as a single consolidated report to the
    Congress.
    I may be wrong.

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