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Thread: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

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    re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    Good arguments however I believe the free world is right to act on behalf of the Libyan people and I support 0bama on this one.

    Hopefully he will realize that a strong show of force will errode support for Gaddafi within his military and force him out of power.
    The free world has no right to interfere. Libya is a sovereign nation, the Libyan people are responsible for it. If they want to get rid of their government, they need to make and plan and do it. We are not part of the governed in Libya, thus we have no rightful say in their government. Monkeying around in the governments of others has rarely worked out well for us. People want to sit around and bitch about NPR funding and this and that, yet in one day we pissed through nearly 40 years of NPR funding blowing up bits of Libya. Our soldiers are at risk, our brethren are dying, our debt is skyrocketing, our government is becoming more and more out of control. We can't be wasting time "bringing democracy" to the world. Our government was never authorized to do such thing. We are not the World Police, we are not an imperial force which can go in, occupy, and control areas well. We are the United States of America and our military should act ONLY in defense of the United States of America. I should not have to pay for other people's defense.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #192
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    re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    The entire intelligence community of the free world did not rely on these sources alone as you would know if you read the Senate report. In fact very little.
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    But who did use these sources to make a case for invading Iraq? Who could that be?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    UNSCOM did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    cite please

    also cite for UNSCOM making a case for invading Iraq.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    Negative. UNSCOM reports are available to anyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    I have read these things and did not find any such thing as you assert.
    If you do not wish to debate, perhaps you are in the wrong forum.
    In debate, the person who makes and assertion, such as, "UNSCOM made a case for invading Iraq and used information from Curveball to do so," is obligated to provide backing for their assertion.

    If you are not willing to do so, please concede instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    The link for this info no longer works. It's from a Jewish organization and the info was compiled from UNSCOM reports:

    “But, there have been no UN-mandated weapons inspections in Iraq since 1998, and the Assessment notes, "Based on the UNSCOM report to the UN Security Council in January 1999 and earlier UNSCOM reports, we assess that when the UN inspectors left Iraq they were unable to account for:
    Up to 360 tons of bulk chemical warfare agent, including 1.5 tons of VX nerve agent.
    Up to 3,000 tons of precursor chemicals, including approx. 300 tons, which, in the Iraqi chemical warfare program, were unique to the production of VX.
    Growth media procured for biological agent production (enough to produce over three times the 8,500 liters of anthrax spores Iraq admits to having manufactured).
    Over 30,000 special munitions for delivery of chemical and biological agents."
    The Assessment adds, "The departure of UNSCOM meant that the international community was unable to establish the truth behind these large discrepancies and greatly diminished its ability to monitor and assess Iraq's continuing attempts to reconstitute its programs."
    http://www.jinsa.org/articles/articl...9,650,122,1759
    Which part of the above comes from Curveball?
    I may be wrong.

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    re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The free world has no right to interfere. Libya is a sovereign nation, the Libyan people are responsible for it. If they want to get rid of their government, they need to make and plan and do it. We are not part of the governed in Libya, thus we have no rightful say in their government. Monkeying around in the governments of others has rarely worked out well for us. People want to sit around and bitch about NPR funding and this and that, yet in one day we pissed through nearly 40 years of NPR funding blowing up bits of Libya. Our soldiers are at risk, our brethren are dying, our debt is skyrocketing, our government is becoming more and more out of control. We can't be wasting time "bringing democracy" to the world. Our government was never authorized to do such thing. We are not the World Police, we are not an imperial force which can go in, occupy, and control areas well. We are the United States of America and our military should act ONLY in defense of the United States of America. I should not have to pay for other people's defense.
    1. Libya violated the human rights of its people, therefore it has forfeited the protections of the right of sovereignty.
    2. With the loss of sovereignty, we have the right to intercede in the ongoing enslavement of the Libyan people and promote democracy.
    3. Actively spreading democracy is acting in the defense of the United States of America.

  4. #194
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    re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The free world has no right to interfere. Libya is a sovereign nation, the Libyan people are responsible for it. If they want to get rid of their government, they need to make and plan and do it.
    They did exactly that. They were gunned down in the streets and driven all the way to Benghazi.

    Helping to establish free and peaceful governments when possible is in the interest of the US as it is for all free nations IMO.
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

  5. #195
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    re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Which part of the above comes from Curveball?
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...post1059368865
    The national security of the United States can never be left in the hands of liberals.

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    re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    1. Libya violated the human rights of its people, therefore it has forfeited the protections of the right of sovereignty.
    2. With the loss of sovereignty, we have the right to intercede in the ongoing enslavement of the Libyan people and promote democracy.
    3. Actively spreading democracy is acting in the defense of the United States of America.
    That might be the way we would like the world to work, Reefedjib, but it is taking on a lot of responsibility that the American people shouldn't shoulder. Unless other democracies get involved in these humanitarian efforts it is the American people who will suffer, both in financial terms and in terms of lives lost. And as you have probably noticed, the United States is not particularly admired for their efforts, despite many of the complainants being the recipient themselves of American aid and assistance.

    It is a pity but the Americans can't save everyone but sometimes we just have to pick our moments and Libya, I don't believe, is one of them.

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    re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    They did exactly that. They were gunned down in the streets and driven all the way to Benghazi.

    Helping to establish free and peaceful governments when possible is in the interest of the US as it is for all free nations IMO.
    Sure it is, but then all free nationns shoud be participating. Germany, as just one example, is setting on the sidelines, as well as their friends the Swiss. These are the profiteers of war and the humanitarian angle holds no interest for them.

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    re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by reefedjib View Post
    1. Libya violated the human rights of its people, therefore it has forfeited the protections of the right of sovereignty.
    2. With the loss of sovereignty, we have the right to intercede in the ongoing enslavement of the Libyan people and promote democracy.
    3. Actively spreading democracy is acting in the defense of the United States of America.
    There's no loss of sovereignty for what they did. There are no laws above a sovereign, that's what it means to be sovereign.

    And #3 is complete and utter horse****.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Mars View Post
    They did exactly that. They were gunned down in the streets and driven all the way to Benghazi.

    Helping to establish free and peaceful governments when possible is in the interest of the US as it is for all free nations IMO.
    Well if they're gunned down, they didn't get rid of their government. While it may be in our "interest" (which I don't buy because rarely have we interfered in foreign governments and have it work out great), it is not in our defense. Thus it is improper use of our military. American lives are not worth Libyan independence. They must fight for themselves. Otherwise we will get another Iraq, which we're still wasting life, time, and money on.
    Last edited by Ikari; 03-24-11 at 05:04 PM.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    re: White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission [edited]

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Let's talk in 6 months.
    Obama on Libya: days, not weeks

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