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Thread: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    My issue with those anti-abortion is an inconsistency with most of their views. The best argument I've heard against abortion (and as to why murder is morally wrong) is VOAFLO - Value of a Future (like ours). The general argument is that murder denies a future, which makes it morally wrong. As abortion also does this, it is also morally wrong.

    But even this argument breaks down at the issue of contraception, almost every abortion argument I've heard does.

    If you are anti-abortion, logically for the same reasons that you oppose killing a fetus you should be morally obligated to oppose birth control. While a few people are, most are not. When confronted with this most tend to make the "heartbeat" argument, which doesn't fly, as merely having a heart doesn't make someone human.
    “The more you know, the harder it is to take decisive action. Once you become informed, you start seeing complexities and shades of gray. You realize that nothing is as clear and simple as it first appears. Ultimately, knowledge is paralyzing.” - Bill Watterson
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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    M
    If you are anti-abortion, logically for the same reasons that you oppose killing a fetus you should be morally obligated to oppose birth control.
    I love it when people tell me what I'm supposed to think

    If it's right for one person to tell another what they should think, so much more right is it for one person to tell another what they must do...like carry the unborn to term.

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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law - The Denver Post

    Props to SD. An informed decision not made on a whim is a better decision and less likely to cause lasting psychological trauma later.
    PT can happen anytime, even in the best of conditions. As for waiting three days, it could make a desperate woman even more traumatized.

    Give the poor woman a break. Making the torturous decision to abort is tough enough already.

    ricksfolly

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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Dozens of bills are advancing through statehouses nationwide that would put an array of new obstacles - legal, financial and psychological - in the paths of women seeking abortions. The tactics vary: mandatory sonograms and anti-abortion counseling, sweeping limits on insurance coverage, bans on abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy. To abortion-rights activists, they add up to the biggest political threat since the Roe v. Wade decision of 1973 that legalized abortion nationwide. What's different this year is not the raw number of anti-abortion bills, but the fact that many of the toughest, most substantive measures have a good chance of passage due to gains by conservative Republicans in last year's legislative and gubernatorial elections.

    In a number of states, lawmakers are considering bills that would ban elective abortions after 20 or 21 weeks of pregnancy. These measures are modeled after a law approved last year in Nebraska that was based on the disputed premise that a fetus can feel pain after 20 weeks. The Idaho Senate approved one such bill Wednesday, sending it to the House, while a similar bill won final legislative approval in the Kansas Senate. The same type of measure is pending in Oklahoma and Alabama.

    In Ohio, there's been a hearing on an even tougher measure that would outlaw abortions after the first medically detectable heartbeat - as early as six weeks into a pregnancy. In Texas, a bill passed by the House would require that pregnant women have an opportunity to view a sonogram image, hear the fetal heartbeat and listen to a doctor describe the fetus.

    In more than 20 states, bills have been introduced to restrict insurance coverage of abortion. In Utah, one such measures - affecting both private and public plans - has cleared both legislative chambers and been sent to Gov. Gary Herbert.

    Florida is a prime battleground. With a new Republican governor, Rick Scott, who touts his anti-abortion beliefs, conservative lawmakers have introduced at least 18 bills on the topic - including proposals to require ultrasound and to ban most insurance coverage of abortion. A different tactic is being tried in Virginia, where lawmakers last month passed a bill requiring abortion clinics to be regulated on the same basis as hospitals. Abortion-rights group said this could entail higher costs and force several clinics to close.
    News from The Associated Press
    Last edited by The Prof; 03-24-11 at 11:40 AM.

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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I love it when people tell me what I'm supposed to think

    If it's right for one person to tell another what they should think, so much more right is it for one person to tell another what they must do...like carry the unborn to term.
    If you have a logical argument that shows why abortion is morally wrong but contraception is not, I'd love to hear it.

    As I stated, I've yet to hear one that logically separates the two. I'm not saying you can't have the position, just that I haven't seen an argument that makes it logically viable to.
    “The more you know, the harder it is to take decisive action. Once you become informed, you start seeing complexities and shades of gray. You realize that nothing is as clear and simple as it first appears. Ultimately, knowledge is paralyzing.” - Bill Watterson
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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    My issue with those anti-abortion is an inconsistency with most of their views. The best argument I've heard against abortion (and as to why murder is morally wrong) is VOAFLO - Value of a Future (like ours). The general argument is that murder denies a future, which makes it morally wrong. As abortion also does this, it is also morally wrong.

    But even this argument breaks down at the issue of contraception, almost every abortion argument I've heard does.

    If you are anti-abortion, logically for the same reasons that you oppose killing a fetus you should be morally obligated to oppose birth control. While a few people are, most are not. When confronted with this most tend to make the "heartbeat" argument, which doesn't fly, as merely having a heart doesn't make someone human.
    So, to be consistent, you must believe that abortion is ok right up until birth. After all, if you're okay with abortion at 12 weeks, logically for the same reasons you should be morally obligated to support abortion "rights" right up until birth.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
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  7. #167
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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    If you make abortion illegal, why don't you just put them all on death row?
    Because I don't support the death penalty. However they should receive the correct sentence that goes along with murder.
    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Of course, you're prolife.
    The fact that capital murder is illegal, does not stop people from murdering. All it does is punish the one who murders; making abortion illegal would have the same effect.
    Yep, and it would deter women from committing murder. If anything it brings justice as these women would be punished for their crimes and abortion would be legally discriminated against.
    Quote Originally Posted by OKgrannie View Post
    It's everybody's problem. It is estimated that 43% of all women will have an abortion during their reproductive years. Criminalizing abortion does not curtail it. So there would be a lot of orphaned children and widowed men and grieving parents missing those women. Although illegal abortion would probably not be the dangerous act it was prior to RvW, it would be far more difficult to detect and prosecute a woman for illegal abortion now.
    Criminalization would bring justice for the most unjust practice in our society. I'm sure that if women are charged with murder that it would deter it. Regardless, it's the principal of justice and bringing justice to the millions who have been legally murdered. You can't stop child abuse or wife abuse, so lets decriminalize it. Making it illegal doesn't stop it so lets legalize it. No need to punish men that are physically abusive to their wives and children.

    Murder causes chaos in society, it affects the whole of society. Abortion does not. Just because you think abortion is wrong is not sufficient reason to criminalize it. You must show how it damages society and you cannot.
    Yes, abortion does. The problem though is that there is less of an emotional connection to those being murdered so people don't feel a major impact. Kids are literally starving to death all over the world yet we don't really care all that much because we have no emotional connection to them nor is it something we face in reality. It damages society because it kills innocent people, degrades human life, and further pushes society to act sexually irresponsible and gives people the mentality that children are a curse and that a woman has the right to kill an unborn person for any whim she may have. Regardless, the major atrocity is the fact that millions of humans are brutally murdered under the law.
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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    If you have a logical argument that shows why abortion is morally wrong but contraception is not, I'd love to hear it.

    As I stated, I've yet to hear one that logically separates the two. I'm not saying you can't have the position, just that I haven't seen an argument that makes it logically viable to.
    Sure.

    Condoms pose less of a health risk to the mother then does a 2nd trimester abortion.

    Pretty easy.

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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    I'm fine with the 3 day waiting period. The decision over whether or not to have an abortion should be a considered one, and enforcing a waiting period gives the woman time to think it over. 3 days isn't too long either. I do not, however, support the women having to get counseling at a crisis pregnancy center. The people that work there have an agenda, and are not medical professionals. Women should have all the facts before they get an abortion, but thats not what crisis pregnancy centers are providing.
    I agree with this almost completely with only this exception.

    If the girl is under 18, I think she should receive counseling.

    We all know a 16 or 17 year old brain doesn't have much in it and there is always room for more info.

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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    This makes as much sense as a waiting period to purchase a handgun.

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