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Thread: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

  1. #141
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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    "Should be made illegal" - Why? so I'd have to have 5 kids instead for 4 because 4 kids just isn't enough. . . mmmhmmm. Maybe I should make that decision and no one else as to whether or not my family will grow if nature happens?
    Why? Because I don't think a woman should be given the right to kill an unborn child. If it's alive in her womb then she should have no right to kill it. The decisions should be made before sex happens, not after contraception. We can't just kill people because they go against our personal desire for the size of our families or because they may be an inconvenience.
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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Why? Because I don't think a woman should be given the right to kill an unborn child. If it's alive in her womb then she should have no right to kill it. The decisions should be made before sex happens, not after contraception. We can't just kill people because they go against our personal desire for the size of our families or because they may be an inconvenience.
    The only thing that making abortion illegal will do is make abortion procedures more dangerous and making death from the procedure more likely.

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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    The only thing that making abortion illegal will do is make abortion procedures more dangerous and making death from the procedure more likely.
    I believe it would limit abortion. It may sound heartless, but if someone is willing to risk their life in order to kill a child, then they deserve the consequences. I believe anyone caught in the act of abortion should be tried and punished with murder. If abortion procedures become dangerous than maybe sane women will rethink before they destroy the life of another.
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  4. #144
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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    The only thing that making abortion illegal will do is make abortion procedures more dangerous and making death from the procedure more likely.

    Here we go.....mental imaging of back ally abortions with rusty coat hangers.....Which is fear mongering nonsense. Look, you want abortion to be an actual right? Put it up through the amendment process. But you liberals know that would never fly, so Judicial Fiat is the next best thing, that and proclaiming it a right when its not.


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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I guess if you're just a social Conservative, then having a lot of government wouldn't bother you. If you're a small government Conservative and a social Conservative, then it would make sense to me that you would try to find a way that would limit abortion in a way that wouldn't conflict with your small government views.
    Again, one can be a governmental conservative and view that the government can still function in its specifically authorized tasks, which protecting individuals from another individual killing them is one such thing. Its not against governmental conservatism to be in favor of a government program that attempts to curtail murder by making it more difficult for the person who has the specific stated intent to kill.

    Yes, there are ways I'd prefer limiting abortion that don't grow government, but I consistently prefer small government. If those are the only two questions that are important to you on this issue, then you're only thinking like a social conservative.
    I'd prefer that too. What you'd PREFER doesn't mean its the ONLY thing that that fits. And no, you're thinking like a conservative whose primary concern is social but is respectful to what the governments role is. If not being conservative in EVERY facet of conservatism equally makes someone "somewhat" conservative there are a **** TON of libertarians on this board that need to stop considering themselves to be conservative.

    Most abortion activists don't consider abortion murder either.... See, I can dismiss your argument just as easily..
    It would help your attempts to dismiss my arguments if your dismissals make sense. Pro-Life people are to Gun Control people as Pro-choice people are to Gun Rights people. Yes, abortion activists don't consider abortion murder, but what an abortion activist thinks is 1) irrelevant to the discussion of what CONSERVATIVEs think and 2) doesn't change the fact that a conservative viewing abortion as murder does not have to equally agree with Gun Control folks based off singularly the notion of "rights".

    Your dismissal is illogical and irrelevant to what I'm arguing. Its like dismissing me by saying "Yeah! Well the cow is brown!"

    In the gun example I'd dare say the majority on BOTH sides do not consider owning a gun means you're going to kill someone. In the abortion debate, the majority of both sides do not have a similar understanding.

    Or, I ask again, are you suggesting that most pro-gun control individuals think owning a gun means you're going to kill someone?

    Likewise people argue that abortion can be legal but unnecessary.... Keep abortion legal, just work to eliminate it from society by addressing other needs.
    Yes, people can absolutely argue that. Where did I say that they couldn't? Again, you've failed to give me a clear reason why you can't come to this conclussion from a conservative view point. All you've told me is how you disagree with it or you think there's BETTER ways.

    You see, you're just dancing around actually addressing the point I am trying to make. SD wants to eliminate access to abortion... They want to make receiving an abortion very inconvenient, to the point that it will be too much of a hassle. These people want abortion illegal.
    Yes, the people pushing this law, if they had their way, absolutely would like to see abortion illegal. Where have I denied that? Where have I argued in any way that that's not the case? I think I've said routinely through this thread they view the act similar to murder. That's not the "extreme" activists in the group, that's the majority of pro-lifers. Most pro-lifers would like to see abortion illegal.

    An extreme anti gun activist is the same way... they view access to guns as a threat and adverse to society. Guns are bad things. They kill people. You don't want them around. They want to eliminate access to guns completely, much like these anti abortion activists hate anybody getting an abortion. It doesn't matter a lot of times.... rape, incest, health.
    Yes, EXTREME anti-gun activists want to see guns taken away. Your average, run of the mill, majority of anti-gun advocates generally want stiffer controls and not all out bans. Even then, as I said, are you SERIOUSLY ... I'm asking YOU to stop dancing as you accuse me of doing ... suggesting that the majority of anti-gun activists believe that OWNING a gun will automatically lead to killing someone?

    And I laugh every time you give the rape exampe, because you again completely miss the point and show you have no desire to actually even ATTEMPT to understand what I'm saying. If a woman is raped, gets pregnant, has the child, and then determines everytime she see's the child she thinks of the rapist and thus kills the child....would that be okay to you? Because to the people who view the fetus as a child, that is zero% different than a woman who is raped, gets pregnant, determines everytime she will see the child she'll think of the rapist and chooses to abort the child. You may think that's ridiculous, but again...you're worthless addition of it into the debate again and again is based not on logic, not on reason, not on good debate, and purely on emotion of going "Rape! They're mean to rape people! THEY'RE BAD!!!!!! RAPPPPE!"

    I am not against guns... You're entitled to your opinion on abortion. I understand that side of the debate.... However, I don't think this law represents small government Conservatives. It does please the social Conservatives though.
    Someone who is JUST a small government conservative is no more or less conservative then someone who is JUST a social conservative. If you're suggesting someone that's just a social conservative (which I don't agree with you in this case that this type of person would be) is someone that is "somewhat conservative" then you'd have to suggest the same to someone that is just a small government conservative. Yet I don't see you or rough ever advocating that notion.

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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    It's possible, but it certainly isn't how most of those in this thread who support this kind of law reach their views. Most of them come to these views because they are more socially conservative than politically conservative. You can see this by the way that their arguments mimic the ones that they would demonize if it was proposed by a "liberal" about a position they disagreed with. This, for me, is the main problem within the modern conservative movement.

    So, while I agree with you that it is entirely possible to support this law based on conservative principles (my own argument in favor of allowing such a law is an example of this), I also believe that this is not what is occuring with the majority of those who have spoken out in support of this law in this thread.
    Could you provide me a liberal equivilent that a conservative would be in favor of where a liberal backed action is pushing for the legalized infringment of someone elses right in a way that the state is meant to protect and conservatives support it?

    I can't honestly think of any off hand, but perhaps you have some in mind based on how you phrased this.

  7. #147
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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I think this law is "good." However abortion should be made illegal. Within the context of legality, I guess it's a good thing that they are forcing women to wait three days and be informed before they commit an act of legalized murder.
    Do you own coat hanger stock?? Making abortion illegal will just make women criminals and probably increase the incidence of abortion, not reduce it. You will see women dying as a result...

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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Do you own coat hanger stock?? Making abortion illegal will just make women criminals and probably increase the incidence of abortion, not reduce it. You will see women dying as a result...
    The women who have abortions are criminals in my view, and I think the law should follow that as well. I have no problem criminalizing women and "doctors" who have and preform abortions. If women dye as a result of preforming an abortion then that's their problem. They chose to illegally kill their unborn child in a way that is risky to their health. Should we decriminalize murder because a murderer may be harmed in their attempt to murder another individual? No, neither should we not decriminalize abortion because some women may seek illegal and risky treatments in an attempt to murder their child.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Tell us then... what is a conservative?
    Someone whose views are largely rooted in and consistent with the social, governmental, fiscal, or defense pillars of conservatism.

    Paleoconservatives are conservatives with moderate to strong conservative views across the board. Libertarian conservatives tend to be strong fiscal and governmental conservatives, strong to extreme on defense, and generally moderate to liberal on social issues. Religious Right conservatives tend to be extremely social conservative and moderate to strongly conservative fiscally, but can vary when it comes to governmental and defense. Neoconservatives as they're referred to today would be better classified as centrists then conservatives. And I could go on and on. But in general I would say a conservative is someone whose views or beliefs are rooted primarily in one or more of those pillars and on the whole leans more right than left.

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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Here we go.....mental imaging of back ally abortions with rusty coat hangers.....Which is fear mongering nonsense. Look, you want abortion to be an actual right? Put it up through the amendment process. But you liberals know that would never fly, so Judicial Fiat is the next best thing, that and proclaiming it a right when its not.


    j-mac
    1. It's not fear-mongering. That's exactly what would happen.
    2. Why would I put it up for an amendment, when it's already legal? I don't have to do ****.

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