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Thread: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

  1. #121
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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    So the government should play a role in giving others the chance to make us feel bad to practice our rights? I definitely wouldn't call that small or limited government. The government doesn't need to see that you feel bad or ashamed for practicing a right that the government gives you and permits you to practice in the first place.

    Why does the government need to get involved between people? Why should the government need to give one group of people the chance to tell you exactly what they think of you, and what you are doing?

    I am sorry, but it's my f**king right to buy a gun, to getting a hunting license, to get an abortion... and I shouldn't be forced by THE GOVERNMENT to sit down with an activist and be preached to and ridiculed before I exercise any of my f**king rights!
    Yeah, I can buy something like that. I take it then you'd support removing waiting periods for guns?
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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yeah, I can buy something like that. I take it then you'd support removing waiting periods for guns?
    There was already a waiting period before you could get an abortion, it was one day. I am mostly complaining about the mandatory counseling... I'd have to think more about the waiting periods and hear more of the arguments, but I am leaning towards removing them for guns and abortion.

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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    So the government should play a role in giving others the chance to make us feel bad to practice our rights?
    Once again you're going from your point of view and trying to argue that it wouldn't be a conservative based idea coming from that point of view. Not to mention by your own sides view point, rights absolutely can have additional restrictions placed on them before partaking in them as long as it doesn't restrict you from actually doing it. That's an illogical way to look at this as few conservatives that are pushing for this would be viewing it from your point of view. However, in their mind this right is one that infringes upon OTHER peoples rights so they'll act as far as they can within the law to try and protect that other persons rights.

    I definitely wouldn't call that small or limited government.
    I wouldn't either coming from your perspective of it. From a conservative perspective its not "smaller" government but it is "limited" government as its government doing part of what its empowered to do which is protecting citizens from physical harm.

    Could you disagree with this idea for conservative reasons? Absolutely! I'm just saying, its ridiculous to act like or suggest that its impossible to come to this conclussion and this action based on conservative ideology. If your view point is that the fetus/child is a person its not unconservative to believe that the government should do everything within its power to respect THEIR rights save for actually taking away someone elses rights (and in this case, they only acknowledge it a "right" in a legal sense and not in a true sense).

  4. #124
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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    So the government should play a role in giving others the chance to make us feel bad to practice our rights? I definitely wouldn't call that small or limited government. The government doesn't need to see that you feel bad or ashamed for practicing a right that the government gives you and permits you to practice in the first place.

    Why does the government need to get involved between people? Why should the government need to give one group of people the chance to tell you exactly what they think of you, and what you are doing?

    I am sorry, but it's my f**king right to buy a gun, to getting a hunting license, to get an abortion... and I shouldn't be forced by THE GOVERNMENT to sit down with an activist and be preached to and ridiculed before I exercise any of my f**king rights!
    All of our rights have limitations and controls - you have to be a certain age to vote. You have to have hunting license to actually hunt / fish, and you have to wait for a period of time / or have a background check to buy a firearm.

    Even our 'unalienable rights' can be controlled and rebuked.
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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Once again you're going from your point of view and trying to argue that it wouldn't be a conservative based idea coming from that point of view. Not to mention by your own sides view point, rights absolutely can have additional restrictions placed on them before partaking in them as long as it doesn't restrict you from actually doing it. That's an illogical way to look at this as few conservatives that are pushing for this would be viewing it from your point of view. However, in their mind this right is one that infringes upon OTHER peoples rights so they'll act as far as they can within the law to try and protect that other persons rights.



    I wouldn't either coming from your perspective of it. From a conservative perspective its not "smaller" government but it is "limited" government as its government doing part of what its empowered to do which is protecting citizens from physical harm.
    I am arguing that there would be more Conservative ways to make abortion happen less. I don't have a problem with CPCs, in general, as long as they aren't spreading misinformation. I have no problem with people trying to help single mothers and teen mothers in their community. I have no problem with volunteering... Provide sex education.. whatever. Those are Conservative ways to work towards eliminating abortion. Trying to eliminate abortion by treating females like children and forcing "counseling" on them, is not Conservative. That is not small government.

    All you're doing is supporting you're style of Big Government... Your big government gets a free pass, because it's moral or whatever. But you just have a preference for it.

    From a conservative perspective its not "smaller" government but it is "limited" government as its government doing part of what its empowered to do which is protecting citizens from physical harm.
    And a anti gun activist could argue that that's why they want guns to be illegal, or an animal rights activist could argue that that's why hunting should be illegal... They'll put restrictions on guns, wait times, and make you sit through "counseling" and take self defense, before they give you a gun. That's not big government... just in from your POV. They are really doing what the government is designed to do... protect people from the dangers of exercising their rights. I mean, protect people from getting hurt by other people.

  6. #126
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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    All of our rights have limitations and controls - you have to be a certain age to vote. You have to have hunting license to actually hunt / fish, and you have to wait for a period of time / or have a background check to buy a firearm.

    Even our 'unalienable rights' can be controlled and rebuked.
    Some controls are practical and socially responsible.... The government forcing an individual to undergo "counseling" by an untrained professional and activist is neither.

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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Some controls are practical and socially responsible.... The government forcing an individual to undergo "counseling" by an untrained professional and activist is neither.
    Well - sometimes it would make sense, such as requiring a wait-period before letting people marry Othertimes it seems to just pacity those who have issues with whatever's on the plate.
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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law - The Denver Post

    Props to SD. An informed decision not made on a whim is a better decision and less likely to cause lasting psychological trauma later.
    Sorry... who the **** are you to tell anybody whether they're informed or not? More of that 'small government' conservatism.
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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I am arguing that there would be more Conservative ways to make abortion happen less. I don't have a problem with CPCs, in general, as long as they aren't spreading misinformation. I have no problem with people trying to help single mothers and teen mothers in their community. I have no problem with volunteering... Provide sex education.. whatever. Those are Conservative ways to work towards eliminating abortion. Trying to eliminate abortion by treating females like children and forcing "counseling" on them, is not Conservative. That is not small government.
    Conservatism isn't about no government, its not anarchism. Certain government functions are legitimate. Protection of life from physical harm done by another entity is a legitimate government function under consevative ideology. Again, simply because you disagree with the method doesn't counter my point.

    I'll make it simple.

    Yes or no...it is within conservative ideology to have the government act in some fashion to attempt to protect children from being physically harmed or killed?

    Yes or no...Pro-lifers in general view a fetus as a child with equal rights to any other child?

    If you answer yes to both of those, then explain to me exactly how this is not a conclussion that could be reached through conservative ideology. Telling me there are BETTER ways to do it, telling me that there are ways you PREFER that they do it, is not telling me why its not conservative...its telling me why you don't like it.

    And a anti gun activist could argue that that's why they want guns to be illegal, or an animal rights activist could argue that that's why hunting should be illegal...
    Except buying a gun doesn't equal killing someone to the majority of pro-gun control advocates that I know. So its not exactly equivilent. Aborting the Fetus/Child in the Pro-Lifers mind is directly infringing upon someone elses rights, the child. I've never heard a large amount of gun-control people suggesting that simply owning a gun somehow violates another persons right.

    The same goes for hunting, though in that case at least you could argue its infringing upon the rights of the animal. Something I have seen argued. And in those cases, I disagree with them but I try to understand that from their perspective an animal life is no less meaningful then a human life and attempting to argue agianst them without being mindful of that is ridiculous.

    At the same time, NONE of what you just said is a counter for what I'm arguing...that you can't suggest you cannot come to this law from a conservative view point...but instead attempting to argue why this law is bad or poor, which is not what I'm arguing but yet what you keep falling back to.

    They'll put restrictions on guns, wait times, and make you sit through "counseling" and take self defense, before they give you a gun.
    Wait, you mean like a wait time to buy a gun that you need to go through a costly and time intensive class that teaches you about the dangers of the gun and facts about it before you're able to carry it however you want?

    That's not big government... just in from your POV. They are really doing what the government is designed to do... protect people from the dangers of exercising their rights. I mean, protect people from getting hurt by other people.
    Are you stating your belief is that Owning a Gun hurts another person?

    I can tell you that from their perspective getting an abortion infringings on someone elses rights 100% of the time. Are you telling me owning a gun infringes upon someone elses rights 100% of the time?

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    Re: SD governor signs 3-day wait for abortion into law

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Sorry... who the **** are you to tell anybody whether they're informed or not? More of that 'small government' conservatism.
    More of that ignorant talk about what is or isn't conservative.

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