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The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians ...

Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

I'm totally fine with taking a life when it comes to wartime and would have no problem pulling the trigger. Taking pleasure in it is another matter.

That's a very easy thing to say.

Not such an easy thing to do... the first time.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

almost everyone I know who has killed an enemy has pics. I started taking mine as a CYA deal. photographic evidence that I didn't shoot the bastard in the back or some stupid **** like that.

I hadn't thought about that, but with every other Liberal in the world, just waiting to pin an American soldier with some kind of war crimes, it makes alotta sense.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

That's a very easy thing to say.

Not such an easy thing to do... the first time.

from my experience, it doesn't get much easier. but then again, maybe I just haven't killed enough people yet.

I would find it odd, however, not to take pleasure in killing someone who is trying to kill me. I guess it's one of those things you just have to experience for yourself.

very easy to sit back and criticize others when you have never been in their position. :shrug:
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

I hadn't thought about that, but with every other Liberal in the world, just waiting to pin an American soldier with some kind of war crimes, it makes alotta sense.

damn bed-wetting, hand-wringing pacifists are always looking to accuse you of being a war criminal, baby killer or murderer.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

That's a very easy thing to say.

Not such an easy thing to do... the first time.

Depends on the individual, but morally I have no qualms about it even if psychologically it might affect me.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

Depends on the individual, but morally I have no qualms about it even if psychologically it might affect me.

There is a huge difference in talking the talk, walking the walk in this subject Still.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

There is a huge difference in talking the talk, walking the walk in this subject Still.

True enough. I can only say what I think is going will happen. I don't think I will hesitate to pull the trigger if called upon to do so. But no, I also don't think I will derive any pleasure or enjoyment out of killing a total stranger. Because I have no reason to hate that individual, only realizing that killing is a necessary part of war. In contrast, something I WOULD take pleasure in would be beating the **** out of a rapist or murderer or bully.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

True enough. I can only say what I think is going will happen. I don't think I will hesitate to pull the trigger if called upon to do so. But no, I also don't think I will derive any pleasure or enjoyment out of killing a total stranger. Because I have no reason to hate that individual, only realizing that killing is a necessary part of war. In contrast, something I WOULD take pleasure in would be beating the **** out of a rapist or murderer or bully.

Spoken like a true person who wasn't been in war.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

from my experience, it doesn't get much easier. but then again, maybe I just haven't killed enough people yet.

I would find it odd, however, not to take pleasure in killing someone who is trying to kill me. I guess it's one of those things you just have to experience for yourself.

very easy to sit back and criticize others when you have never been in their position. :shrug:

Quite so.

Everyones different.

what I hear from MOST people that I know who have had to kill in the line of duty, is that after the first time it's not so bad, but that first time was hell for them.

Not that I meant every person is like that.

But that seemed to be the general concensus I got.

I don't talk that kind of talk.

I don't know what I'd do in that situation. My instinct would probably kick in, kill or be killed and I'd press the button.

But I'm not niave enough to say "Yeah I could kill anybody yoh!".
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

True enough. I can only say what I think is going will happen. I don't think I will hesitate to pull the trigger if called upon to do so. But no, I also don't think I will derive any pleasure or enjoyment out of killing a total stranger. Because I have no reason to hate that individual, only realizing that killing is a necessary part of war. In contrast, something I WOULD take pleasure in would be beating the **** out of a rapist or murderer or bully.

given the current ROE, you can bet your ass that if you have to kill a total stranger it is because he has already tried to kill you. reason aplenty to hate him
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

Guess we will find out.

After you lose some close friends to the enemy then you can say if you don't hate them or not. There is a reason why discipline in vital to the military. Logic is thrown out the window and only discipline keeps the emotions in check. Just a Heads up Balling: There is a very good chance you will lose most if not all of your idealism after going to war.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

given the current ROE, you can bet your ass that if you have to kill a total stranger it is because he has already tried to kill you. reason aplenty to hate him

I don't think that's necessarily the case. If someone stuck you and another dude in a cage and told you guys to fight to the death, you'd kill him out of necessity not because you hate him because he's trying to kill you.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

After you lose some close friends to the enemy then you can say if you don't hate them or not. There is a reason why discipline in vital to the military. Logic is thrown out the window and only discipline keeps the emotions in check. Just a Heads up Balling: There is a very good chance you will lose most if not all of your idealism after going to war.

I think you make some good points. IRL I usually tend to keep my emotions in check, but I agree combat is different.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

I think you make some good points. IRL I usually tend to keep my emotions in check, but I agree combat is different.

Like I said until you expereince it yourself Still us vet explaining it to you is like trying describe color to a blind person.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

Like I said until you expereince it yourself Still us vet explaining it to you is like trying describe color to a blind person.

I agree.

10 chars.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

I don't think that's necessarily the case. If someone stuck you and another dude in a cage and told you guys to fight to the death, you'd kill him out of necessity not because you hate him because he's trying to kill you.

yeah, we're talking real world...not freakin thunderdome. :shrug:
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

yeah, we're talking real world...not freakin thunderdome. :shrug:

It was just an analogy. Yes I realize that I haven't been to war, while others have, and yes that gives you more authority on the subject. All I'm saying is I wouldn't necessarily hate a guy JUST because he is trying to kill me. It would depend on why he was trying to kill me.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

breaking today, msnbc led with it this morning:

During the first five months of last year, a platoon of U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan went on a shooting spree, killing at least four unarmed civilians and mutilating several of the corpses. The “kill team” – members of the 5th Stryker Brigade stationed near Kandahar – took scores of photos chronicling their kills and their time in Afghanistan. Even before the war crimes became public, the Pentagon went to extraordinary measures to suppress the photos, launching a massive effort to find every file and pull the pictures out of circulation before they could touch off a scandal on the scale of Abu Ghraib.

The images – more than 150 of which have been obtained by Rolling Stone – portray a front-line culture among U.S. troops in which killing innocent civilians is seen as a cause for celebration. “Most people within the unit disliked the Afghan people,” one of the soldiers told Army investigators. “Everyone would say they’re savages.”

Many of the photos depict explicit images of violent deaths that have yet to be identified by the Pentagon. Among the soldiers, the collection was treated like a war memento. It was passed from man to man on thumb drives and hard drives, the gruesome images of corpses and war atrocities filed alongside clips of TV shows, UFC fights and films such as Iron Man 2. One soldier kept a complete set, which he made available to anyone who asked.

The Kill Team Photos: | Rolling Stone Politics | Photos
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

uh oh

unarmed civilians murdered

guns and other weapons planted beside their bodies

mutilations, body parts removed

fingers, skulls

used as trophies

a dead boy's finger used as a gambling chip in a poker game

dead bodies manipulated to look as if they're talking and gesticulating

all filmed and passed around

the "kill team" emboldened by lack of policing by superiors

operated in the open, in plain view of the entire company

their actions common knowledge

attempts by higher ups in the pentagon to cover up

it sounds a lot worse than abu ghraib

sorry
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

It was just an analogy. Yes I realize that I haven't been to war, while others have, and yes that gives you more authority on the subject. All I'm saying is I wouldn't necessarily hate a guy JUST because he is trying to kill me. It would depend on why he was trying to kill me.

You wouldn't necessarily survive long on the battlefield, then.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

You wouldn't necessarily survive long on the battlefield, then.

So you're saying psychotic rage is a necessary ingredient in a killer and a warrior? You absolutely have to hate your enemy to kill him?
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

So you're saying psychotic rage is a necessary ingredient in a killer and a warrior? You absolutely have to hate your enemy to kill him?

absolutely? No.

But, you do have to choose sides and if the side you choose isn't the same side as your comrades, then yes, you're time alive in any in any given battle space is limited.

Your platoon mates are you family. If anyone tries to harm your family, you take it very personal. It's that whole blood is thicker than water thing.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

absolutely? No.

But, you do have to choose sides and if the side you choose isn't the same side as your comrades, then yes, you're time alive in any in any given battle space is limited.

Your platoon mates are you family. If anyone tries to harm your family, you take it very personal. It's that whole blood is thicker than water thing.

Interesting, I see your point.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

So you're saying psychotic rage is a necessary ingredient in a killer and a warrior? You absolutely have to hate your enemy to kill him?

No room to psycho-analyze it, sweetened or unsweetened killing is killing... Kill the ego and you can kill anything.

At the end of the day, when it's all said and done, every problem boils down to a marksmanship issue.
 
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