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The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians ...

Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

dirtpoorchris said:
Now imagine how often this happens. People that do nasty/tricky things are good at not getting caught. How many more deaths have come from the hands of someone that wants to rack up their kill count using civs?
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I've been in that situation before...

In combat, one does not have the luxury of spending more than a second or two dealing with each individual enemy. One does not have the luxury of achieving the dominant position before beginning to work. One knocks their asses off and moves, the **** on.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

I see nothing wrong with what I said in my OP. If some posters take what I said as bashing every US Soldier and Military. Then that is on them and their own problem.

I think I have every right to post this story and highlight it considering it's impact is international and my criticisms regarding the delay and the alleged attempt at hiding it is very valid.

This is just a attempt by some to try and hide/divert it under the guise of "bash the US thread" so they do not have to face what the contents of the story holds :shrug:
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

OscarB63 said:
ted bundy, john wayne gacy, jeffrey dahmer, dennis rader (aka BTK killer), the list goes on and on.
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But it's not just an "American" thing - it's a "human WTF" thing.

People do things like this regardless of nationality, race or sense of religion.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

VanceMack said:
Who exactly is this THEY and WE you speak of? THEY, being the actual people that kill or maim ARE terrorists...or murderers. I dont know of this mythical 'we'.
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They = anyone in a country we are currently attacking.
We = any American that pays their taxes.
 
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Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

nonpareil said:
I question the claim that owning to what is likely to come out anyway is allowing "the enemy an IO weapon". If the military owns it quickly, apologise voluntarily and take actions to prosecute the soldiers promptly, that will give a better impression of the military and reenforce the arguement that this kind of action is not condoned by the US military and weaken any attempt by the other side to use the situation to inflame anti-US sentiments in Afghanistan.
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the trials are already underway, and apparently have been for some time; and have been public knowledge for some time. like Abu Ghraib, it appears that the mainstream media wasn't interested in carrying this story unless they had shocking pictures to lead with. it's the pictures that are problematic, not the information.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

Laila said:
I see nothing wrong with what I said in my OP. If some posters take what I said as bashing every US Soldier and Military. Then that is on them and their own problem.

I think I have every right to post this story and highlight it considering it's impact is international and my criticisms regarding the delay and the alleged attempt at hiding it is very valid.

This is just a attempt by some to try and hide/divert it under the guise of "bash the US thread" so they do not have to face what the contents of the story holds :shrug:
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Sensationalistic bull****. While there are a few bad apples, it IS NOT the prevelant or inevitable outcome and another point...

I'm sure as hell, I don't want a solider to ponder when bullets are flying in my direction and the gunner on the .50 cal starts thinking about what it means to kill someone...
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

dirtpoorchris said:
Now imagine how often this happens. People that do nasty/tricky things are good at not getting caught. How many more deaths have come from the hands of someone that wants to rack up their kill count using civs? Why are THEY terrorists but WE aren't when our people do this? Are Arabs so non-human that we have to enable situations that can allow this? How can anyone argue that we are in Afgan for the greater good? Its just full of kids with really, really big and dangerous toys.
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Very rarely. While they may be good at not getting caught, the military is good at catching them. "We" are not terrorists because "we" did not do this, and in fact "our" rules say that this is not to be done, and "we" are persecuting those who did it. Arabs are in fact so human that "we" are charging these guys with murder for killing them. Those kids with big, dangerous toys are better than 90 % of the rest of this country and you do a serious disservice to those kids when you suggest they are all like the ones in this story.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

PeteEU said:
Does not matter. Taking photos in such a manner is at best disgusting and morally wrong, and at worst a political and PR mine field for the US. No matter how legit they were, the very fact that there are photos is enough to label all the kills as "innocent civilians" or what ever tag the opposition wants to place on it.

Like it or not, these soldiers are not only possible criminals but they have put the lives of every NATO and US solider in Afghanistan at risk and dishonored the US military. It is a political and PR nightmare for any US administration regardless of political leaning.
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But, it's not illegal. So, the pictures are irrelevant. The only thing that matters, is if any of these kills were illegal.

Photographers have been taking pictures of battlefield dead since the Civil War. It's not that big-a-deal.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

Arcadius said:
I just don't understand when it crosses the line into atrocity. 1,000s of civilians have been killed in every U.S. military conflict. Why is it suddenly evil when these guys do it?
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It's all about definition. A civilian getting caught in the fire and smoke is collateral damage.

IMO, for a kill to be defined as murder we must first determine if that kill can be defined as an execution, for the simple fact that an execution style killing obviously isn't a result of close quarter combat. Because of the time it takes to kill someone in such a manner, there's plenty of time to determine that individual's threat status.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

MaggieD said:
If you are saying the reason this thread was posted on DP was to demonize the U.S. military, I disagree. I might have posted this thread, and I have nothing but respect for the U.S. Military. But maybe I misunderstand you.
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I write clearly and you didn't misunderstand me. I read the entire article. Laila cherry-picked her OP. She focused exclusively on the killings and photos without a single word on investigations, arrests, charges filed, and courts-martial.

I don't forget certain things. This is the same poster who suggested that a Pakistani diplomat should murder US citizens as blood payment for Raymond Allen Davis.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

Arcadius said:
Isn't that called involuntary manslaughter? I would really like to see you explain that to the family. "I'm sorry I killed your son. But it was an accident. I was trying to kill some other people and he got in the way." Anyway, the bombing of Germany and Japan was intentional. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were definitely intentional. Intentionally killing civilians seems to be fine as long as its deemed to be for the good of the mission. Why does it become wrong when you lose that abstract notion of a greater good? It really isn't that much of a leap.
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It's not a small leap. Like if I work in a company and if instead putting the money into the company account, I put it into mine, there's clear wrongdoing even though I'm still just moving money into accounts in either case. The military is given a moral pass to kill people for certain objectives, individuals acting on behalf of the military enjoy that pass, individuals actiong of their own behalf do not.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

cpwill said:
the trials are already underway, and apparently have been for some time; and have been public knowledge for some time. like Abu Ghraib, it appears that the mainstream media wasn't interested in carrying this story unless they had shocking pictures to lead with. it's the pictures that are problematic, not the information.
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It has taken more than a year. The apologies seem to have come only after the pictures come out. The information is sparce to say the least, so the Military is still withholding most of the information regarding this case. They always claim that they can't speak about it because it is an ongoing case unless they decide to do a "managed leak" to soften the blow.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

Redress said:
Very rarely. While they may be good at not getting caught, the military is good at catching them. "We" are not terrorists because "we" did not do this, and in fact "our" rules say that this is not to be done, and "we" are persecuting those who did it. Arabs are in fact so human that "we" are charging these guys with murder for killing them. Those kids with big, dangerous toys are better than 90 % of the rest of this country and you do a serious disservice to those kids when you suggest they are all like the ones in this story.
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We shouldn't even be in this situation. I didnt mean that all soldiers are phsycos that will rack kills against anyone (threat or not). I simply meant to imply that boys/men like big things that go boom. And we shouldn't be at war with anyone. Noone is trying to take over our soveriegnty and maybe we should be a little more Westphalian.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

Tashah said:
I write clearly and you didn't misunderstand me. I read the entire article. Laila cherry-picked her OP. She focused exclusively on the killings and photos without a single word on investigations, arrests, charges filed, and courts-martial.

I don't forget certain things. This is the same poster who suggested that a Pakistani diplomat should murder US citizens as blood payment for Raymond Allen Davis.
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Did you even ask her? You have a prejudice against her from previous posting and assumed the worst. The quoted part is the beginning to the OP, most of us post that way, we quote the first paragraphs and leave the rest for others to read at the link.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

Tashah said:
There is nothing debatable here. It seems to me that the main intent of the OP is to demonize the US military.
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And why do you think this?

It seems that instead, the OP is bringing to our attention something horrible that occurred.

Edit: Let's put that thinking cap on buddy.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

Mr. Invisible said:
And why do you think this?
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Proper balance. But then again, balance doesn't seem to be your forté.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

Tashah said:
Proper balance. But then again, balance doesn't seem to be your forté.
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Please, tell me, where/how does she even allude to wanting to "demonize the US military."

Also, you aren't so balanced yourself.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

Mr. Invisible said:
Also, you aren't so balanced yourself.
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Who is? But some are far more unbalanced than others. Pssst... check out your siggy.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

Tashah said:
Who is? But some are far more unbalanced than others. Pssst... check out your siggy.
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Psst... check out these three words: It's called Palestine.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

When you consider the fact that we've been there for around 10 years now, hundreds of thousands of troops have rotated in & out there in that period there havent been that many of these type of incidents. There are nutcases at every level of society and that includes the military. IMO our military has some of the finer people in the world and I wouldnt let a small number of headcases that slipped thru, paint the picture for the whole group. If these guys are found guilty they will pay for there crimes and rightfully should. In this incident that may be the case, but they do deserve there day in court.

Lets put this in perspective though and also remember, you can better believe the Taliban have there operatives hidden within the Afghan government with sympathizers in the press who are looking for any little thing the military does wrong so they can make us look as bad as possible (not that I think this is the case this time) so Afghan public opinion will turn against us. We also need to remember that the Taliban have killed many more civilians than our guys ever will.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

That is f**ked up, and the girl looks naked... they covered her with a coat. wtf. These people are sick.

I can't imagine why the did that... they were just in a war zone, killing people, and were desensitized?
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

SheWolf said:
That is f**ked up, and the girl looks naked... they covered her with a coat. wtf. These people are sick.

I can't imagine why the did that... they were just in a war zone, killing people, and were desensitized?
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Minor correction: it's not a girl. "...body of Gul Mudin, the son of a farmer..."
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

Redress said:
Minor correction: it's not a girl. "...body of Gul Mudin, the son of a farmer..."
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I just read that.... It was a little boy... :(
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

How wrong. However, the actions of rogue soldiers who violate military rules does not reflect upon the US military as a whole. These murderers will be tried and hopefully justice will be served. The US military is an extremely strict organization and does not condone these actions. The military is seeking punishment for the criminals and for justice to prevail in this horrible atrocity.
 
Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

Mr. Invisible said:
Please, tell me, where/how does she even allude to wanting to "demonize the US military."

Also, you aren't so balanced yourself.
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Right here...


Laila said:
.. and posed with their dead bodies.

Afghan Abu Ghraib ... except worse :/


Wouldn't blame Afghans if they got violent against the Soldiers. Some of the photos are just horrible and just imagine ... there was 4,000 found.

I'm not even going to post the photos. It should be in the link.
The 'Kill Team' Images: US Army Apologizes for Horrific Photos from Afghanistan - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

I don't know which bit is the worst part. The idea the photos were attempted to be hidden by the US or the apology only came when they got leaked :doh

Edit: Please merge if a thread has already been made on it. Couldn't see it on BN
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