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Thread: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians ...

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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I see nothing wrong with what I said in my OP. If some posters take what I said as bashing every US Soldier and Military. Then that is on them and their own problem.

    I think I have every right to post this story and highlight it considering it's impact is international and my criticisms regarding the delay and the alleged attempt at hiding it is very valid.

    This is just a attempt by some to try and hide/divert it under the guise of "bash the US thread" so they do not have to face what the contents of the story holds
    Sensationalistic bull****. While there are a few bad apples, it IS NOT the prevelant or inevitable outcome and another point...

    I'm sure as hell, I don't want a solider to ponder when bullets are flying in my direction and the gunner on the .50 cal starts thinking about what it means to kill someone...

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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Now imagine how often this happens. People that do nasty/tricky things are good at not getting caught. How many more deaths have come from the hands of someone that wants to rack up their kill count using civs? Why are THEY terrorists but WE aren't when our people do this? Are Arabs so non-human that we have to enable situations that can allow this? How can anyone argue that we are in Afgan for the greater good? Its just full of kids with really, really big and dangerous toys.
    Very rarely. While they may be good at not getting caught, the military is good at catching them. "We" are not terrorists because "we" did not do this, and in fact "our" rules say that this is not to be done, and "we" are persecuting those who did it. Arabs are in fact so human that "we" are charging these guys with murder for killing them. Those kids with big, dangerous toys are better than 90 % of the rest of this country and you do a serious disservice to those kids when you suggest they are all like the ones in this story.
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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Does not matter. Taking photos in such a manner is at best disgusting and morally wrong, and at worst a political and PR mine field for the US. No matter how legit they were, the very fact that there are photos is enough to label all the kills as "innocent civilians" or what ever tag the opposition wants to place on it.

    Like it or not, these soldiers are not only possible criminals but they have put the lives of every NATO and US solider in Afghanistan at risk and dishonored the US military. It is a political and PR nightmare for any US administration regardless of political leaning.
    But, it's not illegal. So, the pictures are irrelevant. The only thing that matters, is if any of these kills were illegal.

    Photographers have been taking pictures of battlefield dead since the Civil War. It's not that big-a-deal.

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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadius View Post
    I just don't understand when it crosses the line into atrocity. 1,000s of civilians have been killed in every U.S. military conflict. Why is it suddenly evil when these guys do it?
    It's all about definition. A civilian getting caught in the fire and smoke is collateral damage.

    IMO, for a kill to be defined as murder we must first determine if that kill can be defined as an execution, for the simple fact that an execution style killing obviously isn't a result of close quarter combat. Because of the time it takes to kill someone in such a manner, there's plenty of time to determine that individual's threat status.

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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    If you are saying the reason this thread was posted on DP was to demonize the U.S. military, I disagree. I might have posted this thread, and I have nothing but respect for the U.S. Military. But maybe I misunderstand you.
    I write clearly and you didn't misunderstand me. I read the entire article. Laila cherry-picked her OP. She focused exclusively on the killings and photos without a single word on investigations, arrests, charges filed, and courts-martial.

    I don't forget certain things. This is the same poster who suggested that a Pakistani diplomat should murder US citizens as blood payment for Raymond Allen Davis.

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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadius View Post
    Isn't that called involuntary manslaughter? I would really like to see you explain that to the family. "I'm sorry I killed your son. But it was an accident. I was trying to kill some other people and he got in the way." Anyway, the bombing of Germany and Japan was intentional. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were definitely intentional. Intentionally killing civilians seems to be fine as long as its deemed to be for the good of the mission. Why does it become wrong when you lose that abstract notion of a greater good? It really isn't that much of a leap.

    It's not a small leap. Like if I work in a company and if instead putting the money into the company account, I put it into mine, there's clear wrongdoing even though I'm still just moving money into accounts in either case. The military is given a moral pass to kill people for certain objectives, individuals acting on behalf of the military enjoy that pass, individuals actiong of their own behalf do not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    the trials are already underway, and apparently have been for some time; and have been public knowledge for some time. like Abu Ghraib, it appears that the mainstream media wasn't interested in carrying this story unless they had shocking pictures to lead with. it's the pictures that are problematic, not the information.
    It has taken more than a year. The apologies seem to have come only after the pictures come out. The information is sparce to say the least, so the Military is still withholding most of the information regarding this case. They always claim that they can't speak about it because it is an ongoing case unless they decide to do a "managed leak" to soften the blow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Very rarely. While they may be good at not getting caught, the military is good at catching them. "We" are not terrorists because "we" did not do this, and in fact "our" rules say that this is not to be done, and "we" are persecuting those who did it. Arabs are in fact so human that "we" are charging these guys with murder for killing them. Those kids with big, dangerous toys are better than 90 % of the rest of this country and you do a serious disservice to those kids when you suggest they are all like the ones in this story.
    We shouldn't even be in this situation. I didnt mean that all soldiers are phsycos that will rack kills against anyone (threat or not). I simply meant to imply that boys/men like big things that go boom. And we shouldn't be at war with anyone. Noone is trying to take over our soveriegnty and maybe we should be a little more Westphalian.
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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    I write clearly and you didn't misunderstand me. I read the entire article. Laila cherry-picked her OP. She focused exclusively on the killings and photos without a single word on investigations, arrests, charges filed, and courts-martial.

    I don't forget certain things. This is the same poster who suggested that a Pakistani diplomat should murder US citizens as blood payment for Raymond Allen Davis.

    Did you even ask her? You have a prejudice against her from previous posting and assumed the worst. The quoted part is the beginning to the OP, most of us post that way, we quote the first paragraphs and leave the rest for others to read at the link.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    There is nothing debatable here. It seems to me that the main intent of the OP is to demonize the US military.
    And why do you think this?

    It seems that instead, the OP is bringing to our attention something horrible that occurred.

    Edit: Let's put that thinking cap on buddy.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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