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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Your mistake is in portraying the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan as wars.
    counterinsurgency is indeed warfare.

    That is completely irrelevant.
    actually it is relevant. there is a world of difference between shooting an unarmed forward observor as he radios your pos into a mortar pit vs dragging someone out of their house at random.

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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    when the factual behavior of demons is made public that is hardly demonizing

    but that you find it so certainly explains some administrative actions
    i think the bit was a bit over the top in trying to ascribe negative or conspiratorial motives to trying to keep those photos off of the internet. there is nothing wrong with not wishing to inflame the situation further. as the trial progresses, their actions will become public knowledge, so it's not like anything is being hidden; we are simply denying the enemy an IO weapon.

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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    True that.

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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Your mistake is in portraying the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan as wars.



    What on earth are you going on about.




    That is completely irrelevant.

    You said when done as a group it's "collateral damage" meaning it's "okay". I'm merely trying to illustrate that certain behaviours are not okay even if the majority engage in it or the military condones it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    certainly so, but i would argue there are still extenuating circumstances for some kills that turn out to be illigetimate. often you don't have a clear good-guy-bad-guy dichotomy available to you in the second and a half that you have to make a decision; and after the noise is over, you've got a body. the natural impulse is to highlight the reasons why the man was guilty and why the decision to shoot was the right one. we blew an elderly man to bits in front of his entire family. why? because he accelerated a bongo truck at us after we tried to get him to stop and slow down, and it simply wasn't worth the risk that he was an SVBIED. that doesn't make him any less ultimately innocent, or any less dead. and yeah, we threw out flags and popped some smoke afterwards and Everyone Agreed that we had gone through the Entire Official Order ROE Procedure (magically, in the 3 seconds that we had after he hit the accelerator before it would have been too late) rather than simply waved a hand, a flag, and shot the grill of his vehicle.

    even the man's family said that they didn't hold us responsible. of course, we were all holding big guns and we had just blown apart their grandad, so they may have been telling us what they thought we wanted to hear. i guess i'm just trying to point out that - as obviously insanely evil as this looks - that sometimes these things can become so befuddled and grey as to defy simple analysis. I can think offhand of several Iraqi's that i know to be responsible for the deaths of good men that I would willingly murder given the ability and opportunity.
    According to the source article, the kills where planned, not accidents of war. That is what I was basing my comment on.
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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    i think the bit was a bit over the top in trying to ascribe negative or conspiratorial motives to trying to keep those photos off of the internet. there is nothing wrong with not wishing to inflame the situation further. as the trial progresses, their actions will become public knowledge, so it's not like anything is being hidden; we are simply denying the enemy an IO weapon.

    I question the claim that owning to what is likely to come out anyway is allowing "the enemy an IO weapon". If the military owns it quickly, apologise voluntarily and take actions to prosecute the soldiers promptly, that will give a better impression of the military and reenforce the arguement that this kind of action is not condoned by the US military and weaken any attempt by the other side to use the situation to inflame anti-US sentiments in Afghanistan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    .. and posed with their dead bodies.

    Afghan Abu Ghraib ... except worse :/


    Wouldn't blame Afghans if they got violent against the Soldiers. Some of the photos are just horrible and just imagine ... there was 4,000 found.

    I'm not even going to post the photos. It should be in the link.
    The 'Kill Team' Images: US Army Apologizes for Horrific Photos from Afghanistan - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

    I don't know which bit is the worst part. The idea the photos were attempted to be hidden by the US or the apology only came when they got leaked

    Edit: Please merge if a thread has already been made on it. Couldn't see it on BN
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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    It's very foolish, as some have argued, to try to make the point that mentioning this is some kind of liberal attack on the armed forces. This is a debate forum and there's clearly something to discuss here. If you want to stifle discussion I suggest you find other forums to impose your gag on.

    It's interesting to see a high level of agreement between ideologically opposed posters. I have to say I have agreed more with cpwill and MaggieD in this thread than I have in most others. Will's especially correct when he asks who the victims were. Like it or not, it does make a difference. Are we dealing with murder of innocents or the descration of the bodies of enemies combatants? Neither is acceptable, but there is a world of difference in the severity of the two offences.

    I've no idea who the noob is trying to justify the photos, but it's patently clear that they are not acceptable materials to be circulating around the world's media. They are evidence of some degree of misbehaviour, we'll just have to wait and see what precisely they depict.
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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I'm not going to let this anger or hurt me. Because that's what they want.
    WRONG THREAD. I did NOT mean that comment in regard to this thread - please - no one take offense!

    My real response to this thread is: I don't get why people take photos and videos and then expect to NOT get in trouble for it. . . The stupidity of generation 'D'. 'D' for 'Dumb****'
    Last edited by Aunt Spiker; 03-22-11 at 12:09 PM.
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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I wonder if he notices the first person to defend the military and the US in this was...a liberal.
    That's why my post wasn't aimed at YOU. I'm well aware of your respect for the military, obvious since you were in it.
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