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Thread: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians ...

  1. #31
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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Why are we debating **** like this? What the **** is there to debate about it. All this thread is for, is a so liberal can kick the military in the teeth and that is all it's for. Tell me what's here to discuss.
    There is nothing debatable here. It seems to me that the main intent of the OP is to demonize the US military.
    This is a political forum and this is a big news story with political consequences, isn't that enough to start a thread?

    The only part of the OP that could be construed as criticism of the military is this: I don't know which bit is the worst part. The idea the photos were attempted to be hidden by the US or the apology only came when they got leaked.

    Is the OP wrong in saying that the military attempted to hide the photos and/or that the apology only came after the story has leaked?

    If the OP is wrong, then show that it is wrong and clear the criticisms against the Military's handling of this situation.

    If it is correct, then it's valid criticisms of the US military. If valid criticism base on fact is "demoniz[ing]" then the military essentially gets a free-pass with no accountability. The people at the top needs to learn that when something goes wrong, hidding them from the public (who they are supposed to work for) is not okay. There's a small group within any organisation that might do wrong, own up to that fact without being forced to by the media and learn from it.
    I would have thought the OP was perfectly valid - it's also an international news story that will affect how the continued mission in Afghanistan goes on if the US forces do not quickly control the story.

    Further, what Laila said about the delay in the apology is perfectly valid - if what these 12 rogue soldiers did had been known about for a year or so then those in command should have had plenty of time to deal with any eventual leak of the story. If they haven't done any preparation for how to handle the story when it did break headlines then that is worrying.

    Seems just as worrying here on this forum that attempts are made to kill the thread off as "liberals trying to bash the US military."

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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    yes, because if there is one thing that we don't have, it's gangs in inner cities. or violent pockets of extremism in France. or cartels in Mexico.
    This is probably the dumbest argument I've ever seen on DP, TOT included.

    I just don't understand when it crosses the line into atrocity. 1,000s of civilians have been killed in every U.S. military conflict. Why is it suddenly evil when these guys do it?
    Because when these guys do it it's a "few bad apples". When it's "business as usual" it's collateral losses.
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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcadius View Post
    I just don't understand when it crosses the line into atrocity. 1,000s of civilians have been killed in every U.S. military conflict. Why is it suddenly evil when these guys do it?
    When it seems to become an "enjoyment" to kill?

    Society seems to feel that when we kill other human beings we should not enjoy it. To enjoy it would be evil. But from what I read and hear from people, killing creates an adrenaline rush, which is the way evolution made us. Nevertheless, I find it hard to believe that these 12 didn't know that what they do is not condoned. They choose to go over the line, no matter how arbitrary that line, and they should be punished.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Because when these guys do it it's a "few bad apples". When it's "business as usual" it's collateral losses.
    Way back in the old days, those engaging in combat wore distinct uniforms and the two sides met on a field of battle. Today, the enemy wears clothes like their civilian counterparts and hide amongst women and children, using them as shields and counting on the conscience of their opponents to hesitate or hold fire. Today, civilians will die. Its a fact of modern warfare. The military takes every effort to limit casualties. Can anyone say the same about their opponents? In fact their opponents go out of their way to kill innocents in markets and clubs. Different mindset altogether. And these people that are accused of murder...they also are of a different mindset.

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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Our Military practices are completely fair but when provoked to to harm other peoples to save our own the situation is justified.
    Or nation is more important because it is your nation your fighting for.
    Last edited by Rigg; 03-22-11 at 09:43 AM.

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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    This is probably the dumbest argument I've ever seen on DP, TOT included.



    Because when these guys do it it's a "few bad apples". When it's "business as usual" it's collateral losses.
    If the US military have guidelines that soldiers can take pictures of corpses as celebratory souvenirs, you think that would be seen as "okay"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    Just guessing here, but I would speculate that drug abuse played a major part in this. Afghanistan and heroin are synonymous.
    Pretty sure heroin abuse does not cause the taker to become violent or psychopathic. I very much doubt opiate abuse is a factor. Amphetamines, perhaps.
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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Way back in the old days, those engaging in combat wore distinct uniforms and the two sides met on a field of battle. Today, the enemy wears clothes like their civilian counterparts and hide amongst women and children, using them as shields and counting on the conscience of their opponents to hesitate or hold fire. Today, civilians will die. Its a fact of modern warfare. The military takes every effort to limit casualties. Can anyone say the same about their opponents? In fact their opponents go out of their way to kill innocents in markets and clubs. Different mindset altogether. And these people that are accused of murder...they also are of a different mindset.

    Civilians always die in war. "Way back in the old days", killing villagers and destroying the whole village to deny the enemy santuary was a legitimate war tactic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    It might not even be under those circumstances.At some times the pictures are required by an officer higher up not theyre fault.

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    Re: The 'Kill Team' Images--US Army soldiers in Afghanistan killed innocent civilians

    Quote Originally Posted by Rigg View Post
    It might not even be under those circumstances.At some times the pictures are required by an officer higher up not theyre fault.
    4000 of them by 12 people?
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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